Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Leaving out the progress made in better thermal as well as volumetric efficiency and other progresses made like in combustion. Which one of the two, example. A NA 3.0L 1000HP and the present turbocharged 1.6l (less electrical power) 800hp engine consumes the more air?. The NA engine was said to have been consuming around 450l of air per second.

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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I'll buy in to this - it's my favourite topic

the 1.6 litre hybrid consumes more air
notionally 8400 litre/min of hybrid turbo air (or more) being more mass than 450 litre/sec (27000 litre/min) of NA air

'consuming' more air to dilute the heat so that less heat needs to be dumped eg via coolant

was it a trick question - is there an air shortage ?
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DutchPanther
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Roostfactor wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:55 pm
DutchPanther wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:23 pm
From what I understood, the Subaru basically treats it's turbo charger like a turbine engine while, most F1 car use the MGU-H as the driving force for the turbine. As Hoffman said (which I imagine is what most teams probably do), if the turbo pressure is to be a constant, then definitely the H unit is being used as a motor. But that said then, won't they be able to change core engine characteristics with a switch?
I dont know what you mean by "core engine characteristics" but yes that's what the different strat modes and other switches do, change how much mgu's recharge (generator) vs adding to output power (motor).
This we know happens, how it happens is the top secret magic.
Core engine characteristics as in combustion characteristics because by altering the H unit's speed, you're affecting the in cylinder pressure right? and if they are affected won't the compression ignition characteristics also change?
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saviour stivala
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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‘’Hybrid – The F1 I.6 L TURBO consumes more air’’. Yes the F1 1.6L turbo consumes more air at (16800 l/min) per engine capacity wise. Than the NA 3.0 L (27000 l/min) before it, again capacity wise. But volume of air wise 27000 l/min is greater than 16800 l/min of air being consumed (consumption wise). .

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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:00 am
Leaving out the progress made in better thermal as well as volumetric efficiency and other progresses made like in combustion. Which one of the two, example. A NA 3.0L 1000HP and the present turbocharged 1.6l (less electrical power) 800hp engine consumes the more air?. The NA engine was said to have been consuming around 450l of air per second.
Looking atthe ICE alone the NA engines were 1000hp and the V6 hybrids are 860hp. Soo..

The NA v10 was about 160kg/hr of fuel at full power. AFR was probably 12 to 13 (im guessing) so Air flow is therefor 450liters to 490 litres per second.

The V6 AFR is said to be about 20 to 22 (very lean).
So.. 100kg/hr of fuel needs 480 liters to 526 litres per second of air.

So the air demand is slightly more for the V6.
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I was wondering if F1 constructors use physics properties like Halbach array to boost their ERS performance
How hard can it be? ~Jeremious Clarksonious

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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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organic wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:20 pm
The Honda unit looks so much more refined than the Mercedes unit.
How hard can it be? ~Jeremious Clarksonious

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Is there any more rumours of the battery and its components being upgraded yet? Is this likely to be seen before summer break to give a bit time to reflect on the upgrades and improve if so before them components become hologomated .
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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DutchPanther wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:45 am
I was wondering if F1 constructors use physics properties like Halbach array to boost their ERS performance
What property of this array are you thinking about?
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Size/mass/rotational inertia in electro-mechanical function-units perhaps?

& maybe an added cool-flow from a vortex tube to maintain E-M conductivity too?
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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DutchPanther wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:17 am
Roostfactor wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:55 pm
DutchPanther wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:23 pm
From what I understood, the Subaru basically treats it's turbo charger like a turbine engine while, most F1 car use the MGU-H as the driving force for the turbine. As Hoffman said (which I imagine is what most teams probably do), if the turbo pressure is to be a constant, then definitely the H unit is being used as a motor. But that said then, won't they be able to change core engine characteristics with a switch?
I dont know what you mean by "core engine characteristics" but yes that's what the different strat modes and other switches do, change how much mgu's recharge (generator) vs adding to output power (motor).
This we know happens, how it happens is the top secret magic.
Core engine characteristics as in combustion characteristics because by altering the H unit's speed, you're affecting the in cylinder pressure right? and if they are affected won't the compression ignition characteristics also change?
In a way, because you reduce back pressure with higher turbine speed, which alters the pressure waves and how they reflect in the exhaust system. Since the H is also coupled to the compressor, compressor speed and thus intake pressure waves are altered. Furthermore, since Honda uses a bypass system compressor output can affect exhaust gas temperature and volume/density.
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DutchPanther
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:00 am
DutchPanther wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:45 am
I was wondering if F1 constructors use physics properties like Halbach array to boost their ERS performance
What property of this array are you thinking about?
I was thinking about, application of Halbach array to arrange the permanent magnets inside the ERS motors
How hard can it be? ~Jeremious Clarksonious

J.A.W.
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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DutchPanther wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:04 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:00 am
DutchPanther wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:45 am
I was wondering if F1 constructors use physics properties like Halbach array to boost their ERS performance
What property of this array are you thinking about?
I was thinking about, application of Halbach array to arrange the permanent magnets inside the ERS motors
What for?

If you missed my suggestion as to a purpose - a couple of posts back up the page - is that it?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

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DutchPanther
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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J.A.W. wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:15 pm
DutchPanther wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:04 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:00 am


What property of this array are you thinking about?
I was thinking about, application of Halbach array to arrange the permanent magnets inside the ERS motors
What for?

If you missed my suggestion as to a purpose - a couple of posts back up the page - is that it?
I was thinking in terms of stator magnet arrangement in the ERS motors (MGU-H and MGU-K). It seemed like if Halbach arrays were to be used, we'd have 'boosted' magnetic flux inside, increasing the efficiency of the motor. That said, probably a lot of F1 teams are already utilising this effect.
How hard can it be? ~Jeremious Clarksonious