2015 engine development potential

[tranquility2k4]

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/124 ... ns-in-2015

Horner: “Nothing’s going to change for next year, but we [the sport] can’t afford to not get 2016 right," Horner told reporters.

“We’re not writing off next year but for sure the gap that there is, and from what we hear the performance gains that Mercedes are bringing next year, it’s going to be a massive challenge to reduce that.

“If you believe the numbers that are floating around the gap could grow rather than diminish, so that would be rather depressing if that were the case!”

Asked if there was not something Renault could do to bridge the gap for Red Bull, Horner added: "They can make an inroad but I think it would be unlikely to match this year’s engine. I think we can get closer to it but of course Mercedes aren’t going to stand still. Ferrari are probably in a very similar situation. That’s very tough when the engines are frozen at the end of February."

Speaking before his departure from Maranello on Monday after just seven months in the job, ex-team boss Marco Mattiacci, who had put in place a restructuring plan at the team, said: "You have seen today, the gap [to Mercedes] is quite impressive.

“So we need to make a big, big jump and time is against us. So 2015 we foresee to be quite a challenging season.”

So RB and Ferrari not confident. Horner saying they may just about manage to match Merc engine of this year, but even that looks unlikely and Merc are expected to have big gains - potentially a second per lap.

Head of Motorsport Yasuhisa Arai predicted in a recent interview that “I have confidence that we will match Mercedes".

Wouldn't it be great if Honda turn up and better even Mercedes, or at least get close. Rosberg, Hamilton in Merc vs Alonso and Button in McLaren would be great.

[stuartpengs]

Wouldn't it be great if Honda turn up and better even Mercedes, or at least get close. Rosberg, Hamilton in Merc vs Alonso and Button in McLaren would be great.

Would also blow Christian Horner's plans for a 2016 engine unfreeze out of the water, wouldn't it? They need a majority to push through any changes, and if Honda feel they're close to Mercedes they could also decide to stick to current regs and keep end of season tokens, leaving Renault and Ferrari high and dry.

[Blackout]

Horner is exagerating things as always for politcal reasons. I think the mountain that Renault has to climb is also smaller than the Ferrari one for technical reasons. But this is OT.

[Jolle]

RedBull are a bit of sore losers, they gave up the second half of 2013 to develop the RB9 instead of investing in the RB10. Plus, wasn't at the start of the V8 engine freeze that Renault was allowed to make some changes because they were slower then the Mercs?

If RedBull wants to change more on the engine, why not develop a new Renault PU and call it a Nissan-Infinity?

Cost wise, the smaller teams could lease older spec engines (just like in the old days), so everybody is happy.

Besides, with every big engine rule change the past couple of decades, Merc came with very powerful units, so, if 2016 sees an new engine again, Merc would again be the one to beat (and we do this all over again)

[giantfan10]

so, if 2016 sees an new engine again, Merc would again be the one to beat (and we do this all over again)

that may not be the case... Mercedes didnt get the most powerful PU because they are the smartest engineers on the grid... mercedes started developing their engine waaaay before renault and ferrari did due to the fact that both those teams were fighting for a championship and mercedes was not..add to that the massive amounts of money they threw at the project... i seriously doubt if the engine formula changed that either ferrari or renault would be on the back foot again.
the appearance of mercedes greatness is also exagerrated by the fact that no team was allowed to modify their PU once the season started and mercedes with the best pu just sailed off into the sunset with an advantage that couldnt be touched
mercedes in my opinion has won the least impressive championship in the last 25 years in F1
in all the past eras of dominant cars there was not one where teams were not allowed to scratch claw and even copy the leading teams technology
we are now at the point where mercedes in an effort to keep their advantage now cite cost as a reason not to open up the freeze rules to an extent... laughable .. all of it

[Blackout]

+1

Besides, with every big engine rule change the past couple of decades, Merc came with very powerful units, so, if 2016 sees an new engine again, Merc would again be the one to beat (and we do this all over again)

The Merc V8 wasnt the most powerful in 2006 according to many insiders. The Renault, The Ferrari and even the BMW were more powerful...
Was the 2005/2004/etc merc the most powerful V10?
And the most powerful engine isnt necessarily the best engine as Renault showed it between 2011 and 2013. Fuel consumption, cooling, weight, driveability or exhaust blowing were almost as important as power...

[GPR-A duplicate2]

so, if 2016 sees an new engine again, Merc would again be the one to beat (and we do this all over again)

that may not be the case... Mercedes didnt get the most powerful PU because they are the smartest engineers on the grid... mercedes started developing their engine waaaay before renault and ferrari did due to the fact that both those teams were fighting for a championship and mercedes was not..add to that the massive amounts of money they threw at the project... i seriously doubt if the engine formula changed that either ferrari or renault would be on the back foot again.
the appearance of mercedes greatness is also exagerrated by the fact that no team was allowed to modify their PU once the season started and mercedes with the best pu just sailed off into the sunset with an advantage that couldnt be touched
mercedes in my opinion has won the least impressive championship in the last 25 years in F1
in all the past eras of dominant cars there was not one where teams were not allowed to scratch claw and even copy the leading teams technology
we are now at the point where mercedes in an effort to keep their advantage now cite cost as a reason not to open up the freeze rules to an extent... laughable .. all of it

Bravo !!!

What a load of crap. RBR and Ferrari fought for glory in previous years without bothering about 2014 and Merc compromised previous years by concentrating on 2014. Simple and straight forward. Rules are rules and it is the same for everyone, so why quote that as a reason for the lousy job that Renault and Ferrari have done on PU. Least impressive, a definition driven by which side you are. Of course Merc is right in holding on to their hard earned advantage and in the same situation, Ferrari and Renault would have done the same. It sounds childish when others come and say, "Oh we screwed it up badly and hence need engine unfreezing to catch up".

[giantfan10]

this is a definition driven by common sense ...
this is what you call a competition? where one team gets it right and the rest of the field doesnt and u tell the rest of the field tough luck u just have to live with it and even though u know exactly what it is that you need to do to catch up you cant do a thing about it..... sponsors and viewers will flock to that? i think not
why did the governing body ban testing in the ferrari domination years? why did they ban the blown difusser in the red bull domination years?
why did they ban the mass damper in the alonso renault days?
if its so fair and the team that got it right should be left to make a snoozefest of the sport why didnt they leave those teams alone?
based on recent history mercedes should enjoy their advantage while they can.

[bill shoe]

Not sure if this is exactly the correct thread for this but-

The current hyper-expensive price of the engines makes sense only if there is real engine competition and the potential for disparity between competing engine manufacturers. If the rules are changed so the engines become roughly equal (like the V-8 era), then they would be running essentially spec engines. It makes no sense to pay crazy huge money for spec engines.

So do they want real competition and potential for disparity or do they want roughly spec engines and low prices? Currently Ferrari and Renault appear to be arguing for both hyper-expensive prices AND rule changes that lead to equal-performance spec engines. Dumb, dumb, dumb. That is my sophisticated analysis .

[PlatinumZealot]

this is a definition driven by common sense ...
this is what you call a competition? where one team gets it right and the rest of the field doesnt and u tell the rest of the field tough luck u just have to live with it and even though u know exactly what it is that you need to do to catch up you cant do a thing about it..... sponsors and viewers will flock to that? i think not
why did the governing body ban testing in the ferrari domination years? why did they ban the blown difusser in the red bull domination years?
why did they ban the mass damper in the alonso renault days?
if its so fair and the team that got it right should be left to make a snoozefest of the sport why didnt they leave those teams alone?
based on recent history mercedes should enjoy their advantage while they can.

I too agree that Mercedes should enjoy their advantage. RedBull were enjoying theirs for 4 years.

[NoDivergence]

All teams agreed to 2014 engine rules. Sorry that some couldn't think up split turbo or use of log manifold with a big turbo

[xpensive]

I'm afraid only Honda can beat this in 2015, but it will still be another silver-season, why interest will further decline;



Image courtesy of Gitanes Blondes.

[Mesteño]

Engine unfreeze in 2016 would be disgusting. For everyone except maybe Red Bull, I don't even think Ferrari want a free development to match Mercedes, looking at the money.

I think the best possible panorama for 2015 is Mclaren Honda fighting Mercedes at the same level, Red Bull with PU enough to be in podiums or even victories in circuits more aero-like, and a possible "token gifts" for Renault and Ferrari enough to silence some voices.

[michl420]

I think there is no doubt that the world Champion 2015 will have a Mercedes of Honda engine. However more likely a mercedes

[Pierce89]

Engine unfreeze in 2016 would be disgusting. For everyone except maybe Red Bull, I don't even think Ferrari want a free development to match Mercedes, looking at the money.

I think the best possible panorama for 2015 is Mclaren Honda fighting Mercedes at the same level, Red Bull with PU enough to be in podiums or even victories in circuits more aero-like, and a possible "token gifts" for Renault and Ferrari enough to silence some voices.

Did an f1 fan really just say it would be disgusting to allow the engines to be unfrozen? I personally got into f1 virtually all because of the amount of development.