Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:I can't see Ferrari winning the case for a reliability upgrade because there are too many factors against them.

1. Their rivals will try to stop them
2. Their engines can be turned down and still be within the acceptable range of horsepower
3. The engines seem to fail near end of life and not start of life.
4. It could be a performane gainer that is causing the problems now.
1. Rivals can't stop anything, only fia decides.
2. Engines turned down is nonsense. The engine has clear reliability issues that have nothing to do with the power used. A broken piston head!? Every customer team with problems.
3. PU2 did Miami and 20 laps in Barcelona and 20 laps in Baku. That's very far from EOL.
4. No it can't, FIA would reject that.

And lastly: Ferrari already got one reliability update so your arguments are moot.

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chrisc90
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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How many reliability 'upgrades' are you allowed?
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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chrisc90 wrote:How many reliability 'upgrades' are you allowed?
Infinite till you solve your issues.

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codetower
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:16 pm
I can't see Ferrari winning the case for a reliability upgrade because there are too many factors against them.

1. Their rivals will try to stop them
2. Their engines can be turned down and still be within the acceptable range of horsepower
3. The engines seem to fail near end of life and not start of life.
4. It could be a performane gainer that is causing the problems now.
Obviously teams will try and stop it, but how can you prove that the reliability upgrade will bring performance upgrade?

on your points:
#2 - Assuming that the cause of failure is BECAUSE the engine is tuned up. If they use this, then the same argument may be had later on against ANY manufacturer seeking a reliability upgrade (just turn the engine down). It's like telling the porpoising teams "Just raise your ride height".
#3 - The first DNF came on PU2 after just one race, no? Spain was the Turbo on PU2 if I'm not mistaken.
“When a great team loses through complacency, it will constantly search for new and more intricate explanations to explain away defeat.”
― Pat Riley.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Unlimited upgraded for reliability reasons are allowed. Rivals cannot stop them, only FIA decides. Leclerc used fully upgrades PU 2 in Miami and for 20 laps in Spain. In Baku Leclerc was using PU 1. In 5 days after Baku FERRARI needs to declare whether the failed Baku PU 1 can be repaired. If not Leclerc will be issued with PU 3. The problem is the Turbo. If the turbo used in Baku cannot be used Leclerc will have incur a grid penalty.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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If Leclerc takes a new full set of PU components he will start the race from pit-lane.

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organic
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:06 pm
Unlimited upgraded for reliability reasons are allowed. Rivals cannot stop them, only FIA decides. Leclerc used fully upgrades PU 2 in Miami and for 20 laps in Spain. In Baku Leclerc was using PU 1. In 5 days after Baku FERRARI needs to declare whether the failed Baku PU 1 can be repaired. If not Leclerc will be issued with PU 3. The problem is the Turbo. If the turbo used in Baku cannot be used Leclerc will have incur a grid penalty.
In Baku Leclerc was running ICE2 with TC3 and MGUH1 as far as I am aware, not "PU 1"

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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organic wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:44 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:06 pm
Unlimited upgraded for reliability reasons are allowed. Rivals cannot stop them, only FIA decides. Leclerc used fully upgrades PU 2 in Miami and for 20 laps in Spain. In Baku Leclerc was using PU 1. In 5 days after Baku FERRARI needs to declare whether the failed Baku PU 1 can be repaired. If not Leclerc will be issued with PU 3. The problem is the Turbo. If the turbo used in Baku cannot be used Leclerc will have incur a grid penalty.
In Baku Leclerc was running ICE2 with TC3 and MGUH1 as far as I am aware, not "PU 1"
Both in Monaco and Baku Leclerc ran PU-1.

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DutchPanther
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PU1 are generally put to only Friday duty after around 6 races as far as I know so, technically he did run the PU1 in Baku
How hard can it be? ~Jeremious Clarksonious

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Leclerc went to Baku with only PU-1 in the pool. he had no FPI-FP2 only engine in Baku.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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organic wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:44 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:06 pm
Unlimited upgraded for reliability reasons are allowed. Rivals cannot stop them, only FIA decides. Leclerc used fully upgrades PU 2 in Miami and for 20 laps in Spain. In Baku Leclerc was using PU 1. In 5 days after Baku FERRARI needs to declare whether the failed Baku PU 1 can be repaired. If not Leclerc will be issued with PU 3. The problem is the Turbo. If the turbo used in Baku cannot be used Leclerc will have incur a grid penalty.
In Baku Leclerc was running ICE2 with TC3 and MGUH1 as far as I am aware, not "PU 1"
ICE1 should have around 4.000 km on it by now (4 full weekends and 3 or 4 fridays). If they ran ICE1 in a more conservative mode than PU2 then they could make it last a few more weekends. If ICE2 is out then ICE1 will be on friday duty too as of Canada. Tough job to make it to the summer break if they don't want to get too much ahead of schedule

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Leclerc’s PU-1 as used in Monaco and Baku had no upgrades/was not upgraded, couldn’t have been because the allowed ‘upgrades’ cannot be retrospectively fitted to an engine already in the pool. Sainz used PU-2 AT RACE 4 in Imola with only certain components being upgraded, but not all (not a full upgrades). Sainz PU-1 was repaired with original components (something which is permitted). For use in FP1-FP-2 + for use in Monaco race. Leclerc used the fully upgraded PU-2 in Miami and Spain. FERRARI was trying to postpone full upgrades to as late as possible.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Alexf1 wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:37 am
organic wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:44 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:06 pm
Unlimited upgraded for reliability reasons are allowed. Rivals cannot stop them, only FIA decides. Leclerc used fully upgrades PU 2 in Miami and for 20 laps in Spain. In Baku Leclerc was using PU 1. In 5 days after Baku FERRARI needs to declare whether the failed Baku PU 1 can be repaired. If not Leclerc will be issued with PU 3. The problem is the Turbo. If the turbo used in Baku cannot be used Leclerc will have incur a grid penalty.
In Baku Leclerc was running ICE2 with TC3 and MGUH1 as far as I am aware, not "PU 1"
ICE1 should have around 4.000 km on it by now (4 full weekends and 3 or 4 fridays). If they ran ICE1 in a more conservative mode than PU2 then they could make it last a few more weekends. If ICE2 is out then ICE1 will be on friday duty too as of Canada. Tough job to make it to the summer break if they don't want to get too much ahead of schedule
Unlike Sainz PU-1 which was repaired and placed into the pool, Leclerc’s Spain fully upgraded PU-2 was mostly a write-off.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:06 pm
Unlimited upgraded for reliability reasons are allowed. Rivals cannot stop them, only FIA decides. Leclerc used fully upgrades PU 2 in Miami and for 20 laps in Spain. In Baku Leclerc was using PU 1. In 5 days after Baku FERRARI needs to declare whether the failed Baku PU 1 can be repaired. If not Leclerc will be issued with PU 3. The problem is the Turbo. If the turbo used in Baku cannot be used Leclerc will have incur a grid penalty.
Where did you get that info? If that was indeed PU1, which started with lower power than PU2, that is then surprisingly good from a performance point of view, given how quick they were on the straights.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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F1NAC wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:08 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:06 pm
Unlimited upgraded for reliability reasons are allowed. Rivals cannot stop them, only FIA decides. Leclerc used fully upgrades PU 2 in Miami and for 20 laps in Spain. In Baku Leclerc was using PU 1. In 5 days after Baku FERRARI needs to declare whether the failed Baku PU 1 can be repaired. If not Leclerc will be issued with PU 3. The problem is the Turbo. If the turbo used in Baku cannot be used Leclerc will have incur a grid penalty.
Where did you get that info? If that was indeed PU1, which started with lower power than PU2, that is then surprisingly good from a performance point of view, given how quick they were on the straights.
That information is obviously not correct. All press is reporting that the reliability upgrade from Ferrari didn't work, and that was in the PU2. Ferrari isn't going to run PU1 on a track like Baku, the last track it did was Monaco.