Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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chrisc90
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:30 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:17 pm

The fire was burnt plastic and possibly any oil I think. Fuel won't be there sitting like that.
None of those explode though. Which we saw at a point when Sainz was pulling over. None of those catch fire so readily and intensely.
saviour stivala wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:48 pm
How can a high speed piece of the turbine penetrate the fuel bladder?.
With the very high energy it has.
Which brings the question of how much velocity would it have after breaking free of any housings it is contained in; if this happened.
dialtone wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:52 am
Engine isn't part of cost cap.
Wasn’t really going to reply to this, but since it’s part of another post I will for keeping in terms of the conversation between quoted posts.

I did mention a scrap PU/elements AND the engine covers which obviously are part of the cost cap, together with any other parts that are outside the engine being outside the cap. How much engine covers or associated components cost to repair/replace is more for the car thread than the PU side
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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saviour stivala wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:48 pm
mzso wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:37 pm
dialtone wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 5:45 pm


It's extremely unlikely that it's fuel. The tank is fireproof and crashproof, you would need to focus a torch on it to pierce it, especially when it's basically 25% full and can take hard impacts.

It's like it happened for Gasly, MGU-H overheat burns the engine cover and then a bunch of stuff burns.
Fuel lines are not any-proof. Besides I'm quite sure a high speed piece of the turbine could penetrate the fuel bladder.
How can a high speed piece of the turbine penetrate the fuel bladder?.
It would be very difficult - to start with, the turbine housing would need to rupture, and then the pieces would need to ricochet off other hardware. Why? Because the natural direction for a broken piece of turbine would be outwards (up, down, sideways) not forwards. To get to the fuel bladder it would need to get to the tub (and there is plenty of stuff in the way of that, not least the engine block and ancillaries) and then get through the tub. And then it would still need to have sufficient energy to actually puncture the bladder that is itself very tough because it incorporates kevlar fabric.
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PhillipM
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The tanks are self sealing, to an extent. They certainly aren't 'crashproof and fireproof' - or anything else proof. They're puncture resistant, not puncture proof. We've seen recently that they can quite happily be damaged and explode into flames. There's a lot of nonsense being bandied here on what's supposed to be a technical site.

Also turbine housings on an F1 car do not have anything like the catch requirements a production road piece does, I wouldn't be surprised at a blade making it through the casings are very thin indeed.
I'll conceed it'd be an odd direction for a blade to go though.

LM10
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Binotto: "The PU failure on Carlos's car sounds like something very similar to what happened in Azerbaijan. At Maranello we are working hard to find a remedy /solution."

Binotto: "These are problems that worry us for the next races, not in the medium to long term because I am convinced that as a team we will be able to solve them."

Binotto: "We have a very high-performance PU & this gives me hope for the future when we have found a way to make it reliable as well."

Binotto: "For interventions of this kind you need time: you have to design new components, produce them, homologate them for reliability. A few weeks are not enough. In the short term we will try to manage it in terms of mileage."

Tweets from "tami.", quoting Corriere.

dialtone
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:28 pm
Binotto: "The PU failure on Carlos's car sounds like something very similar to what happened in Azerbaijan. At Maranello we are working hard to find a remedy /solution."

Binotto: "These are problems that worry us for the next races, not in the medium to long term because I am convinced that as a team we will be able to solve them."

Binotto: "We have a very high-performance PU & this gives me hope for the future when we have found a way to make it reliable as well."

Binotto: "For interventions of this kind you need time: you have to design new components, produce them, homologate them for reliability. A few weeks are not enough. In the short term we will try to manage it in terms of mileage."

Tweets from "tami.", quoting Corriere.
it's going to hurt in the short term yeah... More so than strategy if we don't win the championship this year it's going to be due to reliability sadly, but I would have made the same trade-off as the team wrt the engine. More power at all costs was the most important thing.

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codetower
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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So far this year I’ve heard comments form both Horner and Binotto along the lines of them “rather have to fix reliability in a fast car than have to find speed in a reliable car”. With the power unit now being frozen for the next few years, how accurate is this statement? And how realistic is it? What can Ferrari do with the frozen Power Unit in terms of fixing reliability in the 2nd half of this year and the years ahead? Is it just materials they can work with? If it’s a design flaw that is causing reliability issues, can that change? What are they allowed to realistically do to the PU?
-- Ancora Imparo

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codetower
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Video explaining cause of Carlos Sainz engine blow out:

-- Ancora Imparo

dialtone
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codetower wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:49 pm
Video explaining cause of Carlos Sainz engine blow out:

this video still assumes that Ferrari is running split turbo to do their diagnosis. It's still not confirmed that it's a split turbo.

taperoo2k
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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codetower wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:04 pm
So far this year I’ve heard comments form both Horner and Binotto along the lines of them “rather have to fix reliability in a fast car than have to find speed in a reliable car”. With the power unit now being frozen for the next few years, how accurate is this statement? And how realistic is it? What can Ferrari do with the frozen Power Unit in terms of fixing reliability in the 2nd half of this year and the years ahead? Is it just materials they can work with? If it’s a design flaw that is causing reliability issues, can that change? What are they allowed to realistically do to the PU?
Ferrari can apply to the FIA to make changes to the PU for reliability, safety, supply issues and car installation reasons. I'd say Sainz PU failure would probably fall under reliability and safety. So yes it's best to have a fast PU that you can make reliable, as under the rules further development of this PU generation in terms of performance is frozen.

johnny comelately
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The original video from chrono looks to be speculation as to the MHUH/turbo config, here is another speculate (SCREEN CAPTURE)
Or it could be the original config with the split the evo.
Someone kindly translated the original video, maybe someone could again.??
Image
Last edited by johnny comelately on Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

johnny comelately
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Broken parts can fly out of a turbo, sparks can come from electricity and fires can come from oil
Also, one previous story has been a burnt exhaust valve which really makes life hard for turbines.
If Ferrari have gone for a larger diameter compressor partic for higher altitudes that can create balance problems that move into two planes not just one.

johnny comelately
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Image

johnny comelately
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johnny comelately
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A turbo question for the more educated chaps:
With a lambda of 1.4 and the consequent change in molecular weight ratios but (maybe) a constant velocity as a product of EVO, BMEP, RPM etc what effect would that have on the turbine's work capacity?

johnny comelately
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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English