Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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aleks_ader wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:26 pm
Because it isn't inside V. Its just inverted.
What do you mean by "inverted"?
I am completely lost with this...

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I believe he means 'turned around' (with now the MGU-H in between, the intake is still facing the MGU-H (intake facing rearwards).

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It could also be the same old compressor location too because the old engine also had an ambiguous compressor location.

Look at the compressor discharge pipe in the bottom left photo going to the intercooler and look where it is coming from...

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saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The old compressor location was not inside the airbox as is now being claimed.

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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vorticism wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:24 am
I'm still on the fence. If it's split it has a unique compressor outlet which feeds directly into the cylindrical IC. Otherwise it is still a more typical joined turbo as in previous seasons, with the compressor at the rear, and we simply can't see the charge/transfer pipes beneath the VIM plenums. When you look at the 2019-21 power unit everything looks the same except for the air filter(s) and intercooler

I like that idea combined with the backward front compressor I suggested the other day.
https://i.imgur.com/rzpiB1f.jpg
Like this. Frontal area would be slightly less compromised and compact like in Honda Merc case. Tho inlet pipe is compromised and entry vanes are harder too design.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I like split idea solely bescuse strange cylindrical IC and its atrage attachmend method.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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Stu
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:07 am
It could also be the same old compressor location too because the old engine also had an ambiguous compressor location.

Look at the compressor discharge pipe in the bottom left photo going to the intercooler and look where it is coming from...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FY_lnDKXgAA ... name=large
It looks to me that the turbo intake is running through the V (atmospheric from the filter at the front), the turbo outlet (compressed) is also now running through the V into the rear of the intercooler and out through the top into the plenum (previous version had the pipe into the intercooler at the top out at the bottom (very awkward layout into the plenum!!).
Interesting intercooler shaping in the new version, definitely still charge-cooling, but is it configured as a ‘swirl pot’ on the inside to maintain momentum in the air/plenum (the old version was certainly not doing this!).
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Yeah Stu at first i was in same line of thinking. But why dont they use boxy IC? I think from space and already known variables perspective doesn't make sense. Why choose this path?
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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vorticism
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It's puzzling because it's smaller, and a cylinder is less volume efficient than a cube, so it might be a matter of having smaller microtubes.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Re the circular ‘thing’ on the front of the FERRARI engine with the two outlet pipes running up feeding the planum shown in the picture and marked as ‘’reaction engine’’. There is now no doubt that this is what FERRARI is using as a ‘reaction type of water/air intercooler. Further back on this thread some was suspecting it to be the compressor, which its installed position lower at front of engine than the turbine installed position at the back eliminates the possibility of it being the compressor. Whatever size of compressor and whichever the position FERRARI is using, the FERRARI compressor is certainly doing a good job, certainly capable of pumping/boosting in access of 4.7 bar at the necessary volume, and that round thing at the front (reaction type water/air cooler) is certainly lowering the temperature of the compressed air out of compressor from above 220c to about 50c.

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Stu
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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aleks_ader wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:05 pm
Yeah Stu at first i was in same line of thinking. But why dont they use boxy IC? I think from space and already known variables perspective doesn't make sense. Why choose this path?
It may be the the easiest (less detrimental) path to move the air though 90 degrees inside the charge-cooler rather than outside (as it does with the box-style cooler. By using a swirl-pot or centrifuge within the cooler the compressed air may stay within it for longer. Remember, because of the mgu-h these engines effectively have no lag (such a set-up would probably not work as well in a more standard turbo installation).
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Yeah flow bend is quite natural that way, indeed. Just to provide cooling control of said flow is surely one big computational nightmare. Also core of this IC must be 3D printed surely. Otherwise i cannot see other viable option to provide enough surface density with reasonable manufacturability in this spiral mess.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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vorticism
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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A question of whether they can make sintered walls thin enough to compete with microtubes. One advantage to printing, even if compromised by thicker walls, would be inclusion of fins or surface roughness to increase surface area and turbulent flow.

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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And theoretically u are not really limited by shape of core. With microtubes whatever modern standard can do, its bending is quite limited and you are forced into parallel spiral piping config. Soldering those together into some sort of basket structure is surely expensive mess. But i can see your point. I m quite intrigue how deep this IC goes? 200mm or 300mm give or take. Shame :D oil cooler is so well shaped around i cant see anything.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Are there anything in the regs against using a heatpump?
Even with a very light and simple setup, one could cool the air more, gaining horsepowers...
And as we know heatpupms are very efficient. Maybe the intercooler could be a mix of regular heat transfer and heatpump... ?