Valve Timing

[johnny comelately]

hi everyone,
i am looking for the valve timing for both any of the last v8s and the new 1.6 litre turbo engines in F1 please

[riff_raff]

If you had this detailed information just what would you do with it? Anyone that has the technical ability to make use of this valve timing data would already know this valve timing data.

[strad]

That's not fair Riff.
I agree that johnny comelately probably wouldn't know what to do with the info.
However..I do know a fair amount about cam timing but I have no way of knowing things like lift or duration on say the Mercedes F1 engine let alone things like lobe separation and I think it would be interesting to have that info.
I have no way of knowing whether they still grind them on a twist for example, to counteract the twist imparted to the camshaft by the very high rotation speeds.
That being said I'm not sure what I would do with that information. I'm not sure it would apply to a drag race engine for example

[Brian.G]

If you had this detailed information just what would you do with it? Anyone that has the technical ability to make use of this valve timing data would have to have 100 Million Euro

Fixed that for you Riff Raff

[Richard]

@johnny comelately

No one here is going to give out valve timings, the PU suppliers will keep that data secret.

It would be useful to know why you're looking for that info, then perhaps some people might be able to help you. Perhaps you're wondering if the different engine configuration would lead to changed valve timing?

I'm sure we have members who could provide insight into that sort of issue.

[Brian Coat]

V8 atmo, 98 bore era

17 mm lift; l/d_head 0.41

Inlet MOP 118-121 ATDC, Exh MOP 123-121 BTDC, depending on other engine features.

Turbo era: No Idea. Interestingly, I imagine valve events can influence the work split of the overall p/u "machine".

[R_Redding]

V8 atmo, 98 bore era

17 mm lift; l/d_head 0.41

Inlet MOP 118-121 ATDC, Exh MOP 123-121 BTDC, depending on other engine features.

Turbo era: No Idea. Interestingly, I imagine valve events can influence the work split of the overall p/u "machine".

Thats the Cosworth CA data fro RET Issue 073.

Intake dia 41.3mm ....Exhaust 35mm (1.39:1 ratio)
Ignition timing 60-50deg BTDC

Although these figures are gas and port flow specific to the CA.

In issue 73 , they mention that in the Turbo days IGN timing was below 35deg BTDC with some attaining 25deg BTDC with trick fuel.
RET have 5 issues that have cam design topics ...

Rob

[johnny comelately]

thank you to R Redding and Brian Coat

[johnny comelately]

again i seek some info, this time on the BRM V16 supercharged engine.
the valve timing and rod ratio, if anyone knows that would be appreciated.

overall the areas i am investigating are gas exchange in relation to: bore stroke ratios; charged or naturally aspirated; VE; RPM; rod ratios; hysteresis in inlet tracts.

[Brian Coat]

Thanks R_Redding, forgot to quote RET.

[Brian Coat]

"overall the areas i am investigating are gas exchange in relation to: bore stroke ratios; charged or naturally aspirated; VE; RPM; rod ratios; hysteresis in inlet tracts."

If your studies allow you to access one of the standard 1D simulation codes ( GT Power, Wave, etc.), playing with these models can tell you quite a lot about the gas exchange effects which interest you.

Pages 19-30 here ...
http://www.princeton.edu/cefrc/Files/20 ... CEFRC1.pdf
... give a good overview.

[johnny comelately]

"overall the areas i am investigating are gas exchange in relation to: bore stroke ratios; charged or naturally aspirated; VE; RPM; rod ratios; hysteresis in inlet tracts."

If your studies allow you to access one of the standard 1D simulation codes ( GT Power, Wave, etc.), playing with these models can tell you quite a lot about the gas exchange effects which interest you.

Pages 19-30 here ...
http://www.princeton.edu/cefrc/Files/20 ... CEFRC1.pdf
... give a good overview.

Brian,
thank you for replying.
in all honesty i have looked at 1D simulations and they are beyond me. like putting a burqua on sophia loren.
although the concepts may be helpful.
obviously i am not academic but more conceptual. apologies for not having that link to academia.
knowing the characteristics of gas exchange of existing or past engines is very instructive.
the numbers tell a story if they are understood in perspective.