Power unit power speculation

[mwassf1]

Why do forums and media speculators undersell the V6 turbo engine component of the power unit when even the manufacturers give us clues of their growing capabilities e.g. if Mercedes AMG power unit has now 900+bhp combined, minus the ERS battery's 161bhp, then isn't the V6 turbo engine 740bhp, 90bhp more than speculation? Ferrari and especially Honda despite reliability, are close if not matching.

[hemichromis]

You're forgetting MGU-h contributions

Specifically MGU-h - MGU-k this is has no limit.

[hurril]

I think there could be a non-trivial amount of bullshittery from the manufacturers in an attempt scare the others as well.

[Juzh]

You're forgetting MGU-h contributions

Specifically MGU-h - MGU-k this is has no limit.

It has a 161 bhp limit like he said.

[Steven]

You're forgetting MGU-h contributions

Specifically MGU-h - MGU-k this is has no limit.

It has a 161 bhp limit like he said.

No it isn't. MGU-H can recover as much energy as it can, and feed it directly to the MGU-K, without passing through the batteries, and hence immediately assisting in crankshaft rotation.

The full picture: http://www.f1technical.net/features/19037

[turbof1]

the mgu-k can only pass 120kw to the engine and engine ancillaries. I'll asume here that the latter 2 also encompass the crankshaft, meaning you are limited to 160bhp. Atleast that is my interpretation of the diagram. I've seen the alternative interpretation come along a few times and although I don't believe it, I do agree it holds some ground depending on if you count the drive/crank shaft as a part of the engine.

[Juzh]

You're forgetting MGU-h contributions

Specifically MGU-h - MGU-k this is has no limit.

It has a 161 bhp limit like he said.

No it isn't. MGU-H can recover as much energy as it can, and feed it directly to the MGU-K, without passing through the batteries, and hence immediately assisting in crankshaft rotation.

The full picture: http://www.f1technical.net/features/19037

http://www.f1technical.net/images/featu ... schema.jpg

It's still got a 161 bhp limit. OP was specific about bhp output being underplayed by the media. Unlimited energy transfer doesn't play a role here, it's still limited by K regulated output. Be it for 1 second per lap or the entire lap. MGU-h by itself does nothing to contribute to max power, except in qually when you essentially remove it from the equation.

[Juzh]

That said, I do agree with OP. Internal combustion engine does seem to be a bit underestimated by the media. Just today top gear website had a story comparing lmp1 to an f1 car in which they wrote f1 V6 produces 600-650 bhp. Their exact quote:

it’s widely accepted the V6 turbo develops about 600–650bhp

"widely accepted"

Story here:
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/formula ... 6-f1-car#1

[hemichromis]

Then how does the MGU-H contribute to power beyond allowing the same 120kw for the whole lap?

Could the MGU-H be used to spin the turbo up reducing back pressure to the engine while feeding more air into it?

[godlameroso]

The mgu k can only produce 120kw the h can produce whatever. And with the mguh you can control the precise amount of air, and also influence how it enters the combustion chamber (by also being able to control back pressure). There is a lot of potential there for sure.

[hurril]

Power and energy being conflated yet again. The MGU-h is not limited in the amount of energy it may produce; it is, however, indirectly limited in the amount of power that it is able to contribute to the power unit.

[godlameroso]

People think that the max the MGU-H can deliver to the K in self sustaining mode is ~100hp/70kw, I think it's almost double that. There's potentially ~400kw of heat energy in the exhaust that can be harvested when you account for the power that's absorbed by the crank, and is lost through inertia and friction, and the power lost running the turbine off exhaust gases. So, 150kw while extremely difficult is not impossible.

[Juzh]

People think that the max the MGU-H can deliver to the K in self sustaining mode is ~100hp/70kw, I think it's almost double that. There's potentially ~400kw of heat energy in the exhaust that can be harvested when you account for the power that's absorbed by the crank, and is lost through inertia and friction, and the power lost running the turbine off exhaust gases. So, 150kw while extremely difficult is not impossible.

Even if it's able to deliver in excess of 120kw, it doesnt, because it can't, nor is it wise to do so. Mgu-k cant pump out more than 120kw and that's the end of story.
Are we really back onto this?

[livinglikethathuh]

Mercedes said they could both run the MGU-K at 120 kW and also charge the battery with WOT and at Vmax.
Is it wise to do so? I think that depends on the track.

[Juzh]

Mercedes said they could both run the MGU-K at 120 kW and also charge the battery with WOT and at Vmax.

Did they? When? Just curious.