Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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What on earth is Mercedes doing? Huge wheelbase...smallest rake!! I like how Mercedes has gone so different...specially with rake!! 3 years now most teams try to use as much rake as possible...still Mercedes keeps the rake down and produces the same or even more amounts of downforce compared to Red Bull!!

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jurinius
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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AMG.Tzan wrote:What on earth is Mercedes doing? Huge wheelbase...smallest rake!! I like how Mercedes has gone so different...specially with rake!! 3 years now most teams try to use as much rake as possible...still Mercedes keeps the rake down and produces the same or even more amounts of downforce compared to Red Bull!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C64IIdlW0AAPiku.jpg

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Maybe a solution for their past known rear tyres problem ! interesting to see Redbull tendance. Also the Renault wasn't a consistent car last year... This could be a result not the origin of changes.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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The rake angle might be smaller but the diffuser throat for all cars are more or less the same once you lift the rear floor as close to the lower control arms as you can.

A longer wheel base is more floor area, which is like a bigger wing if you will... bigger wing means bigger down-force. The angle of attack of the floor is not as high, so the increase in drag is low.
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BrunoH
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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PlatinumZealot wrote:The rake angle might be smaller but the diffuser throat for all cars are more or less the same once you lift the rear floor as close to the lower control arms as you can.

A longer wheel base is more floor area, which is like a bigger wing if you will... bigger wing means bigger down-force. The angle of attack of the floor is not as high, so the increase in drag is low.

Good catch, i have not had thought about that in that way but seems right.. its a bigger wing with less angle not to be so penalised with drag, but its got more surface so more downforce

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Pierce89
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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PlatinumZealot wrote:The rake angle might be smaller but the diffuser throat for all cars are more or less the same once you lift the rear floor as close to the lower control arms as you can.

A longer wheel base is more floor area, which is like a bigger wing if you will... bigger wing means bigger down-force. The angle of attack of the floor is not as high, so the increase in drag is low.
A larger flat floor does not necessarily improve downforce. It only does so if the if the diffuser and flow conditions can support more downforce. In a windtunnel, I've personally seen an increase in floor area result in a decrease of downforce, but most of time, the downforce change(either direction) has been of a smaller magnitude than other seemingly smaller changes (like gurney height , or a pair of strakes).
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dren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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It might have been packaging driven. The Mercedes has quite narrow side pods once you get past the wide inlets.
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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Shouldn't exhaust blow out of the exhaust pipes? How does Mercedes manage to blow exhaust under the exhaust?

Source:
https://youtu.be/LGQH3xtoO44?t=26s
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roon
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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godlameroso wrote:http://i.imgur.com/cZHlukb.jpg

Shouldn't exhaust blow out of the exhaust pipes? How does Mercedes manage to blow exhaust under the exhaust?

Source:
https://youtu.be/LGQH3xtoO44?t=26s
The radiator exits are down there, beside and below the crash structure. It could be water vapor or something oil related. Compare to this photo of a Merc engine failure from last year, and notice where the plumes are originating from.

Image

In the context of the 2017 Barcelona testing video, perhaps there was some small condensation or seal leakage which caused the plume during the start sequence & enging rev-up. Or, maybe some residual dry ice getting sublimated off the radiators.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Pierce89 wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:The rake angle might be smaller but the diffuser throat for all cars are more or less the same once you lift the rear floor as close to the lower control arms as you can.

A longer wheel base is more floor area, which is like a bigger wing if you will... bigger wing means bigger down-force. The angle of attack of the floor is not as high, so the increase in drag is low.
A larger flat floor does not necessarily improve downforce. It only does so if the if the diffuser and flow conditions can support more downforce. In a windtunnel, I've personally seen an increase in floor area result in a decrease of downforce, but most of time, the downforce change(either direction) has been of a smaller magnitude than other seemingly smaller changes (like gurney height , or a pair of strakes).
Yes the boundary layer loses energy the further along thw floor it goes. More Frictional loss and viscous losses. However if the team has well sealed floor they can get away with it being bigger and have that velocity still strong at the diffuser throat.

I trust Mercedes did their homework. The pay off is huge. With the bigger floor you get more bang for the buck.. The smaller floored guys need higher pressure differentials above and below the floor to get the same downforce.
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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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Singabule
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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I like their approach, very detailed one. They also thinking two fingering holes for their driver to play at, and give the best grip and feeling to the max :mrgreen:

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dans79
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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I fail to see how this is going to offer any kind of advantage., am i missing something?


If it was me, I'd be trying to come up with some way to take advantage of the bodies natural mechanics to yield a non linear response.
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PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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dans79 wrote:I fail to see how this is going to offer any kind of advantage., am i missing something?


If it was me, I'd be trying to come up with some way to take advantage of the bodies natural mechanics to yield a non linear response.
It's easy, it meets the regulation to the bare minimum without actually constraining the drivers fingers at all as required.
It shows just how poorly the FIA are implementing regulations again.

roon
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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dans79 wrote:I fail to see how this is going to offer any kind of advantage., am i missing something?


If it was me, I'd be trying to come up with some way to take advantage of the bodies natural mechanics to yield a non linear response.
What do you mean, specifically?

My interpretation is that these paddles with divots in them may allow the driver to both push & pull upon the lever, as well as provide a hard point, a hard stop, for the fingertips to rest against. This could provide stability to improve fine, subtle movement.

Some analogies:

-when operating radio or HVAC controls while driving, I sometimes brace my hand or free fingers against the peripheral surfaces for stability
-twisting a motorcycle throttle for me is easier, more controllable, when I have one or two fingers resting upon the brake lever
-when drawing it is difficult to produce small exact motion without bracing the hand in some way

I'm sure there are many more examples, but I'm drawing a blank. I would like to hear if anyone has some, actually!

In this steering wheel example, there would be a bridging, bracing act spanning the hand grip to the divots. The greater, primary force is exerted there, making the hand & fingers rigid for stability. Feeding in fine lever control then becomes the secondary, finer motion.

Also, since these are depressions, the finger is locked into place preventing up-down, fore-aft slippage. Perhaps a good idea consider starting line accelerations & oscillations. Anything that makes operating the paddle more predictable would be of benefit.

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dans79
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

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roon wrote: What do you mean, specifically?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/reve ... ts-883444/
Teams will no longer be able to cleverly map the clutch settings to ensure that the sweet spot for the getaway was in a wide window.

As Haas driver Kevin Magnussen explained: "You just had to release it between 10 percent and 80 percent.

"Somewhere in there was a flat map that would be set to the grip, the tyres and fuel loads. So the start was 100 percent up to the engineers before. But now it is completely down to us."
As well as a maximum 80mm movement allowed in the clutch paddle, there now has to be a 50mm gap between the clutch paddle and any other control on the wheel.
It seems to me, finding a way to mimic the old non linear torque delivery, would be the most import thing, and I don't see how this design would help with that.
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