2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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RedNEO
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Squid wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:17 am
RedNEO wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:53 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:07 am
Retboel
Verraarie
Muklerren

etc.

but offcourse just shrug it off, that's how you 'roll' in this world today with the social media generation.

anyway, on a whole other note.

So Mclaren 'broke up' with Mercedes before and started with Honda and claimed something -rather literally- like 'we will not become WCC with customer engines, so we want works engines'. That got repeated vividly.

so now we're here, and Mclaren is going to run Renault engines.

has there actually been any word from Mclaren on this total switch?
It’s not a “customer deal” like Mercedes would have offered. The deal is for identical support to the works Renault team just like Redbull.
With the disadvantage that they have no input on the engine, so they have to build around whatever Renault builds for itself.

I'd also fully expect Renault to come around on that as they get their program off the ground and into competitive status. Of course they give all their customers full support. As their team is still being rebuilt, they know they won't be at their best, so might as well get some praise from their customers being competitive with their engines. Once they're at that level, you can bet that Renault will only be looking out for numero uno.
No, full support is in the contract and the contract is for 3 years to take McLaren to the new regs.

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etusch
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I remember that boullier had said they will do with the car what renault suggested because they don't know well the new engine.

marmer
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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They are back to the same position as they where under Mercedes but maybe slightly behind the actual on track position. As soon as Renault get the car together they will favour themselves over other teams like Mercedes do with the qualification mode in the engine maps. They already have a track record of doing so from last season when they held new parts from Toro rosso

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etusch
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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marmer wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:46 am
They are back to the same position as they where under Mercedes but maybe slightly behind the actual on track position. As soon as Renault get the car together they will favour themselves over other teams like Mercedes do with the qualification mode in the engine maps. They already have a track record of doing so from last season when they held new parts from Toro rosso
Maybe they are already doing but we cannot aware because of works teams condition ? Who knows ?

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mclaren111
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Zak Brown said it was interim until 2021's new regulations.

Has also been mentioned on site before.

Early rumors are that Cosworth are interested in new PU's and Zak has interests in Cosworth and is a Board member.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I fully doubt Cosworth will provide anything better than they delivered Williams with a couple of years ago in the V8 era; in other words, a total bag of boogers.

Ask me, and Mclaren has only a few options from new entrants; BMW, Toyota, or Porsche/Audi. And quite frankly, they're too late already with that.
They should have sticked to Honda. By the time 2021 pops up, which is only 3 years away, Honda will have fixed their issues by long, hell, they might already mid 2018
or at the start of 2019, even though some reports suggest 2018 is going to be a repeat for Honda. But even then, all teams will have a vast jump on development for the 2021 engine,
and any other manufacturer will have just stepped in and will get exactly the same start as Honda did, perhaps minutely less big of an impact but to think any manufacturer can step
in 2021 and be competitive from the start is delusional, even if it would be BMW or Audi/Porsche to name some, having the budget and motivation to go at it.
Cosworth? hell nah, the only benefit with Cosworth would be that they'd essentially be Mclaren's slave and build an engine like Mclaren wants it too - so that would make it a Mclaren v6 actually. but we have seen just how good that has went down the past years.

i don't want to be negative nancy here, but Mclaren's only chance on short-term success is what they signed up with now, Renault, and that will really be short-term as they'll soon find Renault to beat them, and then they'll be back to square one as a definate customer, which is simply what they are. It means they might have some decent results in 2018 and 2019, but that's going to be it.

I am afraid to say it but Mclaren is going all the way back to where Williams was before, it'll become carbon copy. especially if they grab a Cosworth.

They never should have split with Mercedes. If they kept their relationship intact and friendly, they would be atleast in Force India's spot. And 2014 saw a very competitive Williams. Yet Mclaren was lost. their chassis was bogus, and one can only wonder what reasonable proof they have to believe that the 2018 one will be actually good.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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RedNEO
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:53 pm
I fully doubt Cosworth will provide anything better than they delivered Williams with a couple of years ago in the V8 era; in other words, a total bag of boogers.

Ask me, and Mclaren has only a few options from new entrants; BMW, Toyota, or Porsche/Audi. And quite frankly, they're too late already with that.
They should have sticked to Honda. By the time 2021 pops up, which is only 3 years away, Honda will have fixed their issues by long, hell, they might already mid 2018
or at the start of 2019, even though some reports suggest 2018 is going to be a repeat for Honda. But even then, all teams will have a vast jump on development for the 2021 engine,
and any other manufacturer will have just stepped in and will get exactly the same start as Honda did, perhaps minutely less big of an impact but to think any manufacturer can step
in 2021 and be competitive from the start is delusional, even if it would be BMW or Audi/Porsche to name some, having the budget and motivation to go at it.
Cosworth? hell nah, the only benefit with Cosworth would be that they'd essentially be Mclaren's slave and build an engine like Mclaren wants it too - so that would make it a Mclaren v6 actually. but we have seen just how good that has went down the past years.

i don't want to be negative nancy here, but Mclaren's only chance on short-term success is what they signed up with now, Renault, and that will really be short-term as they'll soon find Renault to beat them, and then they'll be back to square one as a definate customer, which is simply what they are. It means they might have some decent results in 2018 and 2019, but that's going to be it.

I am afraid to say it but Mclaren is going all the way back to where Williams was before, it'll become carbon copy. especially if they grab a Cosworth.

They never should have split with Mercedes. If they kept their relationship intact and friendly, they would be atleast in Force India's spot. And 2014 saw a very competitive Williams. Yet Mclaren was lost. their chassis was bogus, and one can only wonder what reasonable proof they have to believe that the 2018 one will be actually good.
I don’t know why you think sticking with Honda makes any sense. McLaren have made the best choice for these regulations which means equal parity with the works team for the next 3 years. You won’t be saying much when you see how much stronger they become. The next regulations will make it irrelevant to have works teams since no more Mgu-H so no more engine modes and trick software to differentiate engines. And simpler cost effective engines that any manufacturer can come in and build easily so your whole argument is already over before it started.

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proteus
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:53 pm
I fully doubt Cosworth will provide anything better than they delivered Williams with a couple of years ago in the V8 era; in other words, a total bag of boogers.

Ask me, and Mclaren has only a few options from new entrants; BMW, Toyota, or Porsche/Audi. And quite frankly, they're too late already with that.
They should have sticked to Honda. By the time 2021 pops up, which is only 3 years away, Honda will have fixed their issues by long, hell, they might already mid 2018
or at the start of 2019, even though some reports suggest 2018 is going to be a repeat for Honda. But even then, all teams will have a vast jump on development for the 2021 engine,
and any other manufacturer will have just stepped in and will get exactly the same start as Honda did, perhaps minutely less big of an impact but to think any manufacturer can step
in 2021 and be competitive from the start is delusional, even if it would be BMW or Audi/Porsche to name some, having the budget and motivation to go at it.
Cosworth? hell nah, the only benefit with Cosworth would be that they'd essentially be Mclaren's slave and build an engine like Mclaren wants it too - so that would make it a Mclaren v6 actually. but we have seen just how good that has went down the past years.

i don't want to be negative nancy here, but Mclaren's only chance on short-term success is what they signed up with now, Renault, and that will really be short-term as they'll soon find Renault to beat them, and then they'll be back to square one as a definate customer, which is simply what they are. It means they might have some decent results in 2018 and 2019, but that's going to be it.

I am afraid to say it but Mclaren is going all the way back to where Williams was before, it'll become carbon copy. especially if they grab a Cosworth.

They never should have split with Mercedes. If they kept their relationship intact and friendly, they would be atleast in Force India's spot. And 2014 saw a very competitive Williams. Yet Mclaren was lost. their chassis was bogus, and one can only wonder what reasonable proof they have to believe that the 2018 one will be actually good.
2014 Williams was not competitive just by their own, there was more going on. They got more than just an engine, while Mclaren was cut off to just getting the engine - but they had problems of their own, especially with getting the rear tyres up to temp..

But there is no need for that same old Honda song...they will fix their problems in 20xx. We heard this balad hit in 2015 with the name They will fix it in second half of 2015, then there came a new single; In 2016 they will be right at the top, in 2017 they released We will fix the issues in 2017 and so on... Investers had enough of promises and actions were needed to end the suffering. Is the Renault ideal? Not by far, but thanks to the state of the sport it was their only option.

On the other hand it would be a massive twist if Honda and Mclaren made the split intentionally, until 2021 with Honda developing their ways without media pressure due to the smaller team, and Mclaren getting some results back in the menwhile - since both parties had such nice speaches about each other in the last event together.

But it is possible that Honda makes the cut in this season, and produces a good engine. In that case Mclaren truly is the most unlucky team in the caravan, and Alonso the biggest jinx a team can get.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

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proteus
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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marmer wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:46 am
They are back to the same position as they where under Mercedes but maybe slightly behind the actual on track position. As soon as Renault get the car together they will favour themselves over other teams like Mercedes do with the qualification mode in the engine maps. They already have a track record of doing so from last season when they held new parts from Toro rosso
The question is how much was STR paying and what kind of contract they signed.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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RedNEO wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:39 pm

I don’t know why you think sticking with Honda makes any sense.
it's in the above.
McLaren have made the best choice for these regulations which means equal parity with the works team for the next 3 years.
words are different than outcome. mclaren said they'd be competitive in 2017. so said honda. oops.
what happened to redbull? what happened to toro rosso?
You won’t be saying much when you see how much stronger they become.
i think you won't be saying much by seeing how disappointing it still will be
The next regulations will make it irrelevant to have works teams since no more Mgu-H so no more engine modes and trick software to differentiate engines. And simpler cost effective engines that any manufacturer can come in and build easily so your whole argument is already over before it started.
whuhahaha over when it started? dude you dont have aclue what you're talking about.
you really think it'll be that easy huh, you don't for a second understand that Ferrari, Mercedes just to name 2 won't take that as an acceptable outcome, just step in and guns blazing? no, it doesn't work like that.

your credibility was gone before i even read your post. =D>
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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RedNEO
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:28 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:39 pm

I don’t know why you think sticking with Honda makes any sense.
it's in the above.
McLaren have made the best choice for these regulations which means equal parity with the works team for the next 3 years.
words are different than outcome. mclaren said they'd be competitive in 2017. so said honda. oops.
what happened to redbull? what happened to toro rosso?
You won’t be saying much when you see how much stronger they become.
i think you won't be saying much by seeing how disappointing it still will be
The next regulations will make it irrelevant to have works teams since no more Mgu-H so no more engine modes and trick software to differentiate engines. And simpler cost effective engines that any manufacturer can come in and build easily so your whole argument is already over before it started.
whuhahaha over when it started? dude you dont have aclue what you're talking about.
you really think it'll be that easy huh, you don't for a second understand that Ferrari, Mercedes just to name 2 won't take that as an acceptable outcome, just step in and guns blazing? no, it doesn't work like that.

your credibility was gone before i even read your post. =D>
Ross Brawn has specifically stated that these engines will not continue as they are for the next regulations so it doesn’t matter what Ferrari or Mercedes say they will have to accept it or leave. My credibility hasn’t got anything to do with this but ok. Anyway you’re arguing under the assumption things are going to stay the same past 2021 which is frankly ridiculous.

McHonda
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:40 pm
bauc wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:20 pm
Redragon wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:03 pm


Same newspaper is publishing the words from Horner that the reability of Renault on 2017 haven't been so bad since 2006
http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/201 ... b459b.html
Not too optimistic yet about the swap
The choice has been made. The most critical challenge will be the 3 PU units allowed next year, I think this will be the focus for all, and so far even tho the Reno has shown not to be bullet proof, it has considerably better readability compared to Honda. So I expect a tough season for all except Merc powered cars
could you perhaps take atleast the little effort to write 'Renault' correctly and not 'reno'......
Does it matter really? He's written Merc as well but we all know what he means.

Can't think of a better way to shorten it than Reno tbh.

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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To me Staying with Honda was a better deal. For McLaren to have broken the deal with Honda they must believe that Honda will NOT catch up to Renault in the next 2 years. It is the only way it all make sense. They obviously didn't like what they've seen in the last 3 years.

We'll all have a good Idea in June.

McHonda
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I think it just looks like it takes time for even the better equipped and better performing manufacturers to close these few percent gaps between them so they probably do think it will take a season or two.

Ferrari have been within a few percent of Mercedes and doing the same things with the H and lean burn since 2015 but both keep improving by similar margins.
Renault have been within a few percent of Ferrari since March 2016 and have been doing the same things with the H and lean burn but not caught them as they improve by similar margins.
Honda are now within a few percent of Renault and are doing the same things with the H and lean burn since Monza 2017 according to that article.

There's really nothing to suggest Honda can buck the trend and overturn a few percent difference considerably quicker than anyone else has ever managed. Ferrari have a chunk of ex-Mercedes men and a great fuel company in their ranks and it hasn't sped the process up any, it's just very difficult to make the big gains in this formula with everyone moving at similar paces and with every combustion improvement having knock on effects with every part of the ERS system there is so many small adjustments that need developed and tested to destruction to make sure they work under the big reliability constraints, it's an enormously time consuming task really.

Anyway I don't think it was about not being impressed but more about how long it took to close the big performance gap which should of been the easier bit and how long it's taken the other manufacturers to close these moving targets and thought it won't happen any differently for Honda either so being with a supplier even only 1 rung up the ladder closer is still a better place to be for the next couple of seasons but yeah we'll see if they were right or if Honda can buck the trend.

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bauc
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Re: 2018 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:11 am
bauc wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:44 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:40 pm


could you perhaps take atleast the little effort to write 'Renault' correctly and not 'reno'......
Renault is pronounced as RENO allover the world. Its the Reno Clio, The Reno Megan ect...
Just a habbit
I can type Maklaren then? and Torro Rosso?!
Just find a better topic during the winter break please
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