2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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sprint car76
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/12/10 ... e-drivers/

For the posters who keep blaming the drivers for williams problems. This coming from everyone's favorite ( kubica)

bill shoe
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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sprint car76 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:46 pm
https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/12/10 ... e-drivers/

For the posters who keep blaming the drivers for williams problems. This coming from everyone's favorite ( kubica)
Good article. Tough question- when you have two inexperienced drivers who say something is wrong, how much weight do you give to their opinion? Looks like Williams got this wrong for a significant amount of time, but it's not an easy situation. But this conundrum is arguably Williams' own fault for going with two inexperienced drivers.

Other end of the spectrum- if Kimi Raikkonen says some aspect of the car is good/bad/ugly then you immediately have total confidence in that opinion.

netoperek
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Probably the problem might have been with not precise enough criticism from drivers which in turn could lead to ignoring their remarks. I was a bit surprised when Robert said the car is a piece of crap publicly after his firts in season tests. Now it looks like it was meant as a support for drivers.

sprint car76
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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"Not precise enough" "If kimi had said it they might have had more confidence" Are you guys kidding? Robert has made it quite plain in the interview whose fault it was. The engineers screwed up big time. Not only did they design a bad car, they didn't listen when the drivers told them there were problems. Why do you think they fired the designer and the aero guy. How many times did robert say in interviews that the car was ---. Remember robert drove it in the pre season test, so i'm sure he backed up the so called inexperienced drivers. The car was a mess from the word go. I can't believe that paddy is still around since this was his car.

Webber2011
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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As much as I hate to say it, because Williams are the team I've loved the most since I first started following F1 way back in the late 70's, they have a well documented history of not listening to their Drivers 😢😢😢

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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sprint car76 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:37 am
I can't believe that paddy is still around since this was his car.
Isn't he a shareholder as well as his official position? Presumably makes it a lot harder to get rid of him even IF they wanted to.
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

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Big Tea
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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adrianjordan wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:09 pm
sprint car76 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:37 am
I can't believe that paddy is still around since this was his car.
Isn't he a shareholder as well as his official position? Presumably makes it a lot harder to get rid of him even IF they wanted to.
It is also probably not a good idea to get rid of everyone who 'made the mistake' as they have done it once and are less likely to trip up in the same place again (soon) where as a complete new crew do not know the signs already missed this time.
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

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Lotus102
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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sprint car76 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:46 pm
https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/12/10 ... e-drivers/

For the posters who keep blaming the drivers for williams problems. This coming from everyone's favorite ( kubica)
This surprises me a little, as in Paddy’s interview in Racecar Engineer he said it was obvious from the moment the car turned a wheel that they were in serious trouble. Mark Hughes reported something similar. Kubica has form on ‘the engineers didn’t listen’ which I’m taking with a small pinch of salt for now.

Tbh I’m not surprised Paddy is still there, as Claire seemed to have backed him to the hilt. The not-exactly-sackings of Ed Wood and Dirk de Beer and subsequent rearrangement suggest Williams is giving Paddy a free hand to organise the technical team as he wants. IMO just because Paddy had overall responsibility for the car doesn’t mean he should fall on his sword if the actual culpability lay further downstream. Especially if the whole sorry episode has shown up where the underlying problems were and how they can be avoided in future

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Lotus102
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Paddy Lowe: Williams’ “performance has been poor for years.”

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/28021/pa ... ound-.html

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dren
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Paddy Lowe: “Our last victory was back in 2012 with Pastor Maldonado in Spain and the last victory before that was in 2004. That was a long time ago. "My conclusion: our performance has been poor for years. You need changes in the organization, but these do not take effect immediately. Williams has been too static."
Honda!

marmer
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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dren wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:14 pm
Paddy Lowe: “Our last victory was back in 2012 with Pastor Maldonado in Spain and the last victory before that was in 2004. That was a long time ago. "My conclusion: our performance has been poor for years. You need changes in the organization, but these do not take effect immediately. Williams has been too static."
So forget that Williams were a top team in 2014 yet remember a lucky victory two years prior

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Big Tea
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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I thought at the time Williams began falling, they seemed to be getting involved in other outside projects.
Also with Mclaren and their demise, they both began about the time they began getting serious about their road car

I know we keep getting told that it is 'a separate part of the company to F1' but the timing is about right.
There must be some redirection of 'brains and management' into the other projects, and the ready pool is the F1 side.
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

marmer
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:40 pm
I thought at the time Williams began falling, they seemed to be getting involved in other outside projects.
Also with Mclaren and their demise, they both began about the time they began getting serious about their road car

I know we keep getting told that it is 'a separate part of the company to F1' but the timing is about right.
There must be some redirection of 'brains and management' into the other projects, and the ready pool is the F1 side.
Didn't red bull suffer when adiren was making speedboats.

Seems teams really are not able to develop multiple projects.

Maybe they should look at just how huge actual car manufacturers are to understand just how many minds it takes to develop on multiple fronts.

Your not telling me that no one in the McLaren road car department couldn't help the race car.

The large manufacturers have it the other way sometimes with too many bodies

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Lotus102
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:40 pm
I thought at the time Williams began falling, they seemed to be getting involved in other outside projects.
Also with Mclaren and their demise, they both began about the time they began getting serious about their road car

I know we keep getting told that it is 'a separate part of the company to F1' but the timing is about right.
There must be some redirection of 'brains and management' into the other projects, and the ready pool is the F1 side.
I’m not sure. Williams has had irons in all sorts of fires over the years, including when it was dominant in f1 as well as not doing so well. There was the BTCC tie-up with Renault in the mid- 90s, the World Sports Car thing with BMW in 98-99 and Williams Hybrid Power KERS systems from 2010-14, just off the top of my head. I can’t help feeling that if this year has shown anything, it’s the need to have the right people in the right roles rather than just numbers of bodies.

The issue with RBR at the beginning of 2017 suggested that the strength in depth of their engineering department was not as good as it could be - at least in terms of the imagination and focus that Newey brings to the party. But then which team has not suffered when it lost Newey? Williams certainly did.

Lots of cautiously positive noises seem to be coming out of WR at the moment. I suppose talk is cheap, but their approach strikes me as having been the right one ever since the FW41 turned out to be a dog.

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Morteza
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare