3 engine preservation tactics

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Zynerji
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3 engine preservation tactics

Post by Zynerji » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:00 pm

With the mandatory three engines per season rule, does anybody believe that the teams are setting retirement points during a race if they are out of the points?

Unless a car can break back into the points, I can see first lap retirements with destroyed wings or even flat tires where they get too far behind to catch up, and it is better to Simply keep the engine fresh for later in the season.

Thoughts?

dans79
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by dans79 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:05 pm

They don't need to break stuff, they can just stop.

Zynerji
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by Zynerji » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:13 pm

That's exactly my concern. Are we about to watch any entire season with only the top 10 cars finishing every race?

The restrictions on place tell me that we may end up with just that.

Jolle
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by Jolle » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:33 pm

I believe there isn't much difference in maintaining a PU if it's for 4, 5 or 7 races. If it's engineered to run 300 km, it will run for 300 km (in the old days), if it's engineered to run 2.000 km (in '14) it will do 2.000 km and if it's build to run 3.500 km ('18), it will do that distance. In the past few seasons only Renault in some extent and Honda had a problem.

If teams would do PU maintenance that way, they would have done in the past few years as well. I can't recall that any of the top drivers parked their car when points were off the table.

I do believe that teams tune the car down when they are in front (HAM does this a lot) or don't need all power (for instance, in traffic or not in a position to gain any points) to preserve the PU. I presume if you use, for instance, 95% of the capabilities of a PU, the damage is minimal. The PU (and gearbox especially) really is hurting in those last few %.

Also, for the ICE, 12.500 rpm isn't that much, without too many concessions they can make it fairly bulletproof. The difficult part would be the MGH-H. With four seasons of experience, they should be able to make a unit that can last 7 races without too much loss in power.

And, if you look at why most PU's failed over the last few seasons (mostly Renault's and Honda's) it was of design issues/mistakes and very early in their life (lot's of times at their first race)

So no, a few better bearings, a few mm of casing here and there, maybe a bit heavier components and there shouldn't be any problem.

zac510
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by zac510 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:38 pm

They're more likely to just not run in FP1 or if the weather is unfavourable, I'd think.

wuzak
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by wuzak » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:09 am

Jolle wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:33 pm
Also, for the ICE, 12.500 rpm isn't that much, without too many concessions they can make it fairly bulletproof. The difficult part would be the MGH-H. With four seasons of experience, they should be able to make a unit that can last 7 races without too much loss in power.
Are they allowed 3 MGUH, or is it only 2?

AJI
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by AJI » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:30 am

Surely the top 3 will have entire departments strategizing for exactly this? The toughest pill to swallow must be when they lose a low k's PU due to an accident. A big off in Australia could easily scupper the entire year...

Skippon
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by Skippon » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:44 am

A 3 race life will make no discernible difference. 7 races per engine and 800km over weekend is typical (P1+P2+P3+Q+R). Perhaps we will see even less running in free practice..... but saving a few laps in the race NO.
Actually Merc have already achieved his. Bottas lost his second engine very early at Spain in 2017 so barring a race and a half he only used three all year!!!

marmer
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by marmer » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:17 pm

Most of the damage done to a motor happens in qualification when they really push.

You might as well keep rolling around at the back incase of an accident further ahead.

What you could see are teams not doing as many q1 runs or faster cars doing as turned down as possible.
If I was a back marker team boss this season I would qualify last in a reduced mode unless you genuinely felt you could escape q1 teams around you might take penalties so bump you up a couple of places and you have a much fresher engine for the race

Big Tea
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by Big Tea » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:13 pm

I see your points in maintaining the engine etc, but if it is retired a few times during the season, they could well end up with an engine they can wind up and not be concerned about destroying it, as it is 3 races past its 'use by' date.
This would have to be an advantage come the search for points late in the season.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

marmer
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by marmer » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:29 pm

Big Tea wrote:I see your points in maintaining the engine etc, but if it is retired a few times during the season, they could well end up with an engine they can wind up and not be concerned about destroying it, as it is 3 races past its 'use by' date.
This would have to be an advantage come the search for points late in the season.
Would have one disadvantage though. Would be outdated spec so you might actually struggle to keep up with others using newest spec engines

Big Tea
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by Big Tea » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:38 am

But running it a few races longer means the new engine would be more developed by the same amount, so swings and roundabouts?
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

marmer
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by marmer » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:17 pm

Any team that has to take a new engine before they have new upgraded parts are in serious trouble. Would mean only 1 free upgrade to their motor without taking a pen so if Merc are rock solid again and the others struggle. Didn't Ferrari lose some turbos early last year

ESPImperium
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by ESPImperium » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:20 pm

My guess is that we will, in a ideal season, see Canada as the track where the second set of components get inserted into the pool, and Monza as the last track where a new set of components gets inserted.

So in theory:

Component Set #1: AUS, BAH, CHI, AZB, ESP, MCO (Fridays until and including Singapore) - 6 GP
Component Set #2: CAN, FRA, AUS, GBR, GER, HUN, BEL, SIN (Fridays from RUS till MEX) - 8 GP
Component Set #3: ITA, RUS, JPN, USA, MEX, BRA, ABD (Fridays in Brazil & ABD) - 7 GP

However, i do see every driver falling fowl of penalties this year. Even Mercedes will suffer. Ill go as far as to say that some teams will take a tactical penalty or two in order to have an extra component in their pools. And by tactical, i mean at a track that their car isn't working as well as they would like to.

Component battles in the engine departments of manufacturers and teams will be a big story this year i think.

nevill3
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Re: 3 engine preservation tactics

Post by nevill3 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:56 pm

Are the teams allowed to keep four engines in their pool of ICE Turbo etc. if they take a penalty or will it be like last year where they lose the option of using one of their earlier engines?

This rule was brought in last year to stop teams adding three or four engines to their pool in one weekend by changing engines after each practice session and taking only one large penalty for one weekend only but effectively having a complete relatively new supply of engines for the rest of the season.
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