2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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komninosm
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:41 pm
Location: Macedonia

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by komninosm » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:37 am

Restomaniac wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:20 am
Jolle wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:17 am
zeph wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:13 am


I see his point, though.

But no, Vettel was never gonna make that stick.
self reflection in public has never been one of this things.
Which is his issue. I get the ‘racing driver’ thing but sometimes you surely HAVE to see it.
It's the Ferrari mentality that has infected him. They never admit mistakes and are always fake best/good attitude. This is what makes the Ferrari fans the worst behaved ones too. I don't know if the team caused the fans to be that way or the fans caused the team to be that way, but there it is now.

Edax
53
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by Edax » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:18 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:13 am
Edax wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:17 pm
I could be mistaken but only overtake I can remember actually leading into Spoon was the overtake between Vettel and Grosjean. Here Grosjean, on the outside lost the car and had to leave the track. This ony reinforces my statement that Spoon is a big balls corner ( and perhaps not wide enough for four of them :wink: )

I have seen some overtakes in the braking zone for spoon ( I think RiC and VET overtook there) but here they already pulled out of the slipstream halfway the 200R and the move was basically done before entering the corner.

I am not sure you can run 2 cars next to each other there. Just look at how narrow it is (as seen from a normal lens and not the panoramic fisheyed things F1 uses)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ysD-xeuUopo
Might I note your video shows a pre-2017 car, with a lot less downforce. Spoon last year and this year had cars going through very stable and planted. I think you can realistically get cars wheel by wheel through atleast the first apex. The extra downforce cascades further back down because turn 12 is now easily down flat out.

Again please (I BEG YOU) don't take my words as a reflection on the incident. That's not what I want. I'm just merely discussing the merit of overtaking in spoon. Nothing more.
Don’t worry. I think everyone has his mind made up about that. Debating that would only lead to thirty pages of frustrated back and forths, which I am not looking for.

As for your comment. Yes you can make it to the apex, and in fact VET and VES made it there without touching. But you can see by the steering corrections from VES that the car already starts sliding. But after that it really gets complicated.

The way the corner is constructed you have multiple lines in, but only one very narrow line out, since the second part of spoon is even less forgiving than the first. So if you find yourself next to another there one has to yield. If neither is doing that either one you are going to have contact on some point. That is to some extend true for any corner, but in Spoon the number of ways to exit the corner are more limited and penalty is more severe because of the straight behind it, than in most cases.

So it is not so much a pass in terms of downforce, grip, and skill, but more a sideways game of chicken. Think of it this way :D


siskue2005
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User avatar
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by siskue2005 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:38 pm

komninosm wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:37 am
Restomaniac wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:20 am
Jolle wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:17 am


self reflection in public has never been one of this things.
Which is his issue. I get the ‘racing driver’ thing but sometimes you surely HAVE to see it.
It's the Ferrari mentality that has infected him. They never admit mistakes and are always fake best/good attitude. This is what makes the Ferrari fans the worst behaved ones too. I don't know if the team caused the fans to be that way or the fans caused the team to be that way, but there it is now.
true that ......... all these mistakes from Vettel and i have never heard an honest answer from Vettel on his mistakes.