[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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NL_Fer
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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With al that research on Ferrari’s tricks, RBR should be an expert on wire interference

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Sieper
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Yeah, the research was done by Merc, they just passed the info to RBR for them to make the protest.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

maguetox
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:47 pm
Wouter wrote:
Mudflap wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:15 am

.
2 DNFs say you are wrong
The DNFs are due to a fault in the ECU. That is a part coming from McLaren Applied. So thats no fault of Honda.
Is there proof that the problem is with the ECU? Also, how is it that every team in the grid uses the exact same ECU but only Max seems to be having problems with it?... I don’t think is an ECU problem.


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These PU´s are so complex and have this incredible dependency on electronics that the problem could be as "simple" as a cracking solder or something that looks like is to the specs but is not up to the standards, IPC-A-610 Class 3 or whatever standards they are using right now and is causing a false reading or intermittent connection in certain conditions.

To me is something specific of Max car components, because we are not seen any other Honda driver have similar problems or someone else of the field having a ECU issue.

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JordanMugen
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Mudflap wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:29 am
Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:25 am
Mudflap wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:15 am

.
2 DNFs say you are wrong
The DNFs are due to a fault in the ECU. That is a part coming from McLaren Applied. So thats no fault of Honda.
Where did you get that from ?
Should be an easy fix, just swap the ECU, don't think there are any restrictions on that.
New control electronics gives a penalty, no?

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JordanMugen
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Jambier wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:31 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:52 pm
Aston Martin leaves,that gives plenty of opportunity to make Honda the title sponsor.
That's exactly what I thought , rear wing with Honda on it would make sens 8)

Image

=D> =D>

ispano6
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:13 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:47 pm
Wouter wrote:
The DNFs are due to a fault in the ECU. That is a part coming from McLaren Applied. So thats no fault of Honda.
Is there proof that the problem is with the ECU? Also, how is it that every team in the grid uses the exact same ECU but only Max seems to be having problems with it?...
I don’t think is an ECU problem.


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What do you think the problem is?
It better not be something like what Renault did to Toro Rosso...
Cyril did make a point to say to RedBull not being a works team means they "missed a trick". I wonder what he is trying to say. Mclaren providing ECUs to rival teams is a conflict of interest, especially if they are ones to gain from Red Bull's misfortunes.

From 2013...
https://www.auto123.com/en/racing-news/ ... tid=153770
Supplied by McLaren Electronics Systems, the new ECUs were run for the first time on the track by most teams in winter testing in February; just six weeks before racing began in Melbourne.

They replace the previous ECUs that have been running very reliably since the standard ECU was introduced by the FIA in 2008.

An ECU comprises several thousand parts; tens of thousands of solder connections and hundreds of thousands of lines of software. It is a very complex piece of equipment that controls the powertrain and DRS, and acts as a car's primary data system.

The electronic units themselves ran without incident in Melbourne, but there was a software-related issue that meant that Mark Webber's Red Bull Racing car's garage data system had to be re-started during the formation lap.

That disrupted his preparations for the start of the race, for which Mark and the team has our apology. We are working together with them to prevent any recurrence.

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_cerber1
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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ispano6 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:43 am
Mclaren providing ECUs to rival teams is a conflict of interest, especially if they are ones to gain from Red Bull's misfortunes.
McLaren supply electronic components to the FIA, which distributes them among the teams. In other words, the manufacturer does not know which specific ECU will be on which motor. Any fraud with this block is excluded. But, it's great that you again suspect everyone except the Honda. #-o

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Mudflap
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:37 am
Mudflap wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:29 am
Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:25 am


The DNFs are due to a fault in the ECU. That is a part coming from McLaren Applied. So thats no fault of Honda.
Where did you get that from ?
Should be an easy fix, just swap the ECU, don't think there are any restrictions on that.
New control electronics gives a penalty, no?
No, ECU is not CE!
nah pop no style

Manoah2u
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Honda announced the problem with Max' engine was not 'minor', it was pretty 'big'. That first and foremost excludes actual ECU problems.
Albon doesn't seem to suffer from the same problems, even though if i recall correct, Albon had a similar issue as Max at the first GP this season.

It's remarkable that this season, i'm seeing absolute parallels between Alonso and Verstappen. 'No power!'. How long before we hear 'GP2 engine?' lol.
I believe Alonso also suffered far more engine issues than VanDoorne, not unlike Max over Albon.

Could it be that both Alonso and Max driving style and/or setting preferences, have an influence on the way the engine is approached/pushed,
and the way Honda translates this to the engine inadvertedly causes problems? Whether that be the actual ICE or electric part aside.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

ispano6
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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_cerber1 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:08 am
ispano6 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:43 am
Mclaren providing ECUs to rival teams is a conflict of interest, especially if they are ones to gain from Red Bull's misfortunes.
McLaren supply electronic components to the FIA, which distributes them among the teams. In other words, the manufacturer does not know which specific ECU will be on which motor. Any fraud with this block is excluded. But, it's great that you again suspect everyone except the Honda. #-o
Someone doubted that the ECU could be at fault, I posted an example when McLaren admitted it was their software issues. The symptoms in the example, with issues starting in the garage, on formation lap... How do you know if Mclarens software didn't crash? We know it's not a hardware issue with Honda's ICE and other Honda PUs haven't had the same issue. There is such a thing called the Silicon lottery and perhaps some can handle high clock speeds better than others. You know what happens to chips that can't handle the clock speeds? They become damaged due to fatigue and glitchy with arithmetic errors that results in corrupted data packets and signals, often going into reboot cycles. By no means am I saying McLaren is intentionally sabbatoging Max's car, and no one can say for sure that RedBull is overclocking the ECU of Max's car only, but it for sure is one possibility that is causing the gremlins in his car. Maybe some teams know "tricks" to boost ECU performance better than others in a way that doesn't damage them. And if it were an ECU issue then as a Honda fan it wouldn't be unreasonable to feel "shafted". Maybe it is a car problem, or maybe it is an integration issue, maybe it is an over voltage issue. You just want to blame the Honda engine, I get it. I will always give RedBull Honda the benefit of doubt. And if Honda and RedBull come back and say there were integration issues, so be it, I won't rub it in or criticize them.

ispano6
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:46 am
Honda announced the problem with Max' engine was not 'minor', it was pretty 'big'.
Sorry you are misinterpreting his statement because of incorrect wording.

What he said in Japanese was that it was a small issue that ended up having a big impact in that the PU could not function properly.

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Moore77
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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_cerber1 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:08 am
ispano6 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:43 am
Mclaren providing ECUs to rival teams is a conflict of interest, especially if they are ones to gain from Red Bull's misfortunes.
McLaren supply electronic components to the FIA, which distributes them among the teams. In other words, the manufacturer does not know which specific ECU will be on which motor. Any fraud with this block is excluded. But, it's great that you again suspect everyone except the Honda. #-o
He is creating all kinds of conspiracy theories other than blaming Honda for not having done a good enough job. In fact, Honda representatives themselves are very transparent when the issues happen and take the blame, which is a very professional conduct. But some posters here are hell bent on saving honda from any criticism.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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_cerber1
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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ispano6 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:58 am
Someone doubted that the ECU could be at fault, I posted an example when McLaren admitted it was their software issues. The symptoms in the example, with issues starting in the garage, on formation lap... How do you know if Mclarens software didn't crash? We know it's not a hardware issue with Honda's ICE and other Honda PUs haven't had the same issue. There is such a thing called the Silicon lottery and perhaps some can handle high clock speeds better than others. You know what happens to chips that can't handle the clock speeds? They become damaged due to fatigue and glitchy with arithmetic errors that results in corrupted data packets and signals, often going into reboot cycles. By no means am I saying McLaren is intentionally sabbatoging Max's car, and no one can say for sure that RedBull is overclocking the ECU of Max's car only, but it for sure is one possibility that is causing the gremlins in his car. Maybe some teams know "tricks" to boost ECU performance better than others in a way that doesn't damage them. And if it were an ECU issue then as a Honda fan it wouldn't be unreasonable to feel "shafted". Maybe it is a car problem, or maybe it is an integration issue, maybe it is an over voltage issue. You just want to blame the Honda engine, I get it. I will always give RedBull Honda the benefit of doubt. And if Honda and RedBull come back and say there were integration issues, so be it, I won't rub it in or criticize them.
These problems were 7 years ago, and these were new versions of the components that had some "childhood illnesses" that were later eliminated. In addition to the Honda, three more manufacturers use the same ECU, which are checked and sealed by the FIA, and there are no problems with them.
I don’t want to blame Honda, but their press release has no complaints about components supplied by McLaren. They see this problem on their side.

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Wouter
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:04 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:08 am
ispano6 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:43 am
Mclaren providing ECUs to rival teams is a conflict of interest, especially if they are ones to gain from Red Bull's misfortunes.
McLaren supply electronic components to the FIA, which distributes them among the teams. In other words, the manufacturer does not know which specific ECU will be on which motor. Any fraud with this block is excluded. But, it's great that you again suspect everyone except the Honda. #-o
He is creating all kinds of conspiracy theories other than blaming Honda for not having done a good enough job. In fact, Honda representatives themselves are very transparent when the issues happen and take the blame, which is a very professional conduct. But some posters here are hell bent on saving honda from any criticism.

Do you have any idea how many people are already complaining that Honda is to blame for Max having a DNF twice?
This while no one knows what caused the two outages.
They just assume it's Honda's fault, but it doesn't have to be at all.

It seems logical that there are also people who think a little more and say that the problems do not have to be caused by Honda.
There is a communication error with the PU somewhere, maybe a faulty sensor, connector, it could be so much.
The annoying thing is that it only occurs very occasionally.

It would be nice if Honda would give an update how far they are in investigating the cause.
And by the way, you say: " Honda representatives themselves are very transparent when the issues happen and take the blame." This time they did not and last time they did neither.
Nobody knows what caused the DNF in Monza. Transparent? No way.

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Moore77
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Re: [ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

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Wouter wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:35 am
Moore77 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:04 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:08 am


McLaren supply electronic components to the FIA, which distributes them among the teams. In other words, the manufacturer does not know which specific ECU will be on which motor. Any fraud with this block is excluded. But, it's great that you again suspect everyone except the Honda. #-o
He is creating all kinds of conspiracy theories other than blaming Honda for not having done a good enough job. In fact, Honda representatives themselves are very transparent when the issues happen and take the blame, which is a very professional conduct. But some posters here are hell bent on saving honda from any criticism.

Do you have any idea how many people are already complaining that Honda is to blame for Max having a DNF twice?
This while no one knows what caused the two outages.
They just assume it's Honda's fault, but it doesn't have to be at all.

It seems logical that there are also people who think a little more and say that the problems do not have to be caused by Honda.
There is a communication error with the PU somewhere, maybe a faulty sensor, connector, it could be so much.
The annoying thing is that it only occurs very occasionally.

It would be nice if Honda would give an update how far they are in investigating the cause.
And by the way, you say: " Honda representatives themselves are very transparent when the issues happen and take the blame." This time they did not and last time they did neither. Nobody knows what caused the DNF in Monza. Transparent? No way.
I am not talking for others who are blaming Honda either. So far, based on Max and Marko's frustration, audiences think its Honda problem, which is fair in this situation. Let the ball sit in that court until Honda clarifies the issue. There is no point in trying to rescue Honda right now. Honda has a lot of pressure as they had a good benchmark last year. These issues aren't helping the situation. Instead of people who have no idea what the problem is, defending Honda, it would be worth to wait until Honda clarifies their position.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.