2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

[maxxer]

They don't fill up the cars because they cannot use the extra fuel, because the tires overheat. It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also filling up the whole fuel load would make the car heavy and slow (and is bad on tires too). While half-filling up during pit stops would not have that problem. You would use your whole fuel allotment too.
So Refueling is far from the worst thing F1 could reintroduce. How about grooved tires? Ugly and stupid.

"We don't need more pit stops" is just your opinion. Some people do enjoy the strategy part of F1 too, not just the racing on track. Besides, this will also give you more on track action/battles as the cars will be on different strategies and have to overtake more (and it will be easier too). Less processions.
F1 cars at pit speed limit is grossly overstated by you. It will just be 20 more seconds per car in a 2 hour race. And the race will be much better.

The other idea I had to allow for more pit-stop strategies to not suck (and not be used by the vast majority of cars as now), is to shorten pit entries/exits. Make the pit stops less time consuming and then the speed gains will be more appetizing.

The current cars don't use much fuel, Merc are winning most races with about 90-95kg of fuel. Even if they did allow refueling there would still only be 1 stop races. Nothing can change until the tires improve.

The strategy should be... go fast, I get no pleasure watching the fastest race cars in the world trundling down the pit lane at 60kph. The days of refueling in F1 were horrible, bo on track battles, cars on different sides if the track battling each other on the stopwatch rather than wheel to wheel. F1 should never ever go back to that bs.

If you're on light fuel you like 3 seconds a lap faster. That covers a pitstop delay in about 9 to
10 laps. Refuelling is the ticket. I have a solution for solving the disadvatnges of refuelling though.

Remember 2009... Early pitstops on like lap 12?!! Cars pushing hell for leather to gain a gap... Versus the 'oil tanker" strategy of slow and steady hoping for a saftey car or some other eventuality. It was intriguing, varied, unpredictable and fun to watch, for me at least.

Isnt it more the tyres still , they can do half race distance on the softs if they want so it seems they are too hard now and the speed difference between the range is too low , only the hard seemed to be the wrong choice here.
Get 2 stops soft soft medium and 1 stop soft hard or medium hard

[PlatinumZealot]

The teams limit the pace to allow the tyres to do that. It doesnt matter what tyres you throw on. The team want to do one pitstop because the penalty for doing more than one pitstop is harsh.

The only time we get races with two pitstops is when the tyre wear is extreme. (blistering).

[Big Tea]

They don't fill up the cars because they cannot use the extra fuel, because the tires overheat. It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also filling up the whole fuel load would make the car heavy and slow (and is bad on tires too). While half-filling up during pit stops would not have that problem. You would use your whole fuel allotment too.
So Refueling is far from the worst thing F1 could reintroduce. How about grooved tires? Ugly and stupid.

"We don't need more pit stops" is just your opinion. Some people do enjoy the strategy part of F1 too, not just the racing on track. Besides, this will also give you more on track action/battles as the cars will be on different strategies and have to overtake more (and it will be easier too). Less processions.
F1 cars at pit speed limit is grossly overstated by you. It will just be 20 more seconds per car in a 2 hour race. And the race will be much better.

The other idea I had to allow for more pit-stop strategies to not suck (and not be used by the vast majority of cars as now), is to shorten pit entries/exits. Make the pit stops less time consuming and then the speed gains will be more appetizing.

The current cars don't use much fuel, Merc are winning most races with about 90-95kg of fuel. Even if they did allow refueling there would still only be 1 stop races. Nothing can change until the tires improve.

The strategy should be... go fast, I get no pleasure watching the fastest race cars in the world trundling down the pit lane at 60kph. The days of refueling in F1 were horrible, bo on track battles, cars on different sides if the track battling each other on the stopwatch rather than wheel to wheel. F1 should never ever go back to that bs.

If you're on light fuel you like 3 seconds a lap faster. That covers a pitstop delay in about 9 to
10 laps. Refuelling is the ticket. I have a solution for solving the disadvatnges of refuelling though.

Remember 2009... Early pitstops on like lap 12?!! Cars pushing hell for leather to gain a gap... Versus the 'oil tanker" strategy of slow and steady hoping for a saftey car or some other eventuality. It was intriguing, varied, unpredictable and fun to watch, for me at least.

The safety cars would mess that up now though wouldn't it?

[Jolle]

If we kept the tires the same and brought back refueling, good chance the teams would go for a 60kg tank, starting with 30-35 kg on soft, and then slosh in 60kg at the second pitstop.

Same race, same outcome, almost just as heavy cars (10% lighter at most, the biggest amount on saved fuel is replaced with crash worthy valves and stuff), just the pitstop takes a lot longer and the cars will be slower during 60% of the race (because of the added weight). Just a faster first stint.

[PlatinumZealot]

If we kept the tires the same and brought back refueling, good chance the teams would go for a 60kg tank, starting with 30-35 kg on soft, and then slosh in 60kg at the second pitstop.

Same race, same outcome, almost just as heavy cars (10% lighter at most, the biggest amount on saved fuel is replaced with crash worthy valves and stuff), just the pitstop takes a lot longer and the cars will be slower during 60% of the race (because of the added weight). Just a faster first stint.

Don't worry about pitstop times... That can be sorted.

[ENGINE TUNER]

If we kept the tires the same and brought back refueling, good chance the teams would go for a 60kg tank, starting with 30-35 kg on soft, and then slosh in 60kg at the second pitstop.

Same race, same outcome, almost just as heavy cars (10% lighter at most, the biggest amount on saved fuel is replaced with crash worthy valves and stuff), just the pitstop takes a lot longer and the cars will be slower during 60% of the race (because of the added weight). Just a faster first stint.

Yep, the reason why refueling was introduced is because the v10s were burning thru twice as much fuel during the race as the current cars. Introducing refueling to these cars wouldn't change much at all and definitely wouldn't improve anything.

Refueling should never come back to F1.

[SmallSoldier]

Yes, rear is unstable, but they're not going backwards during the race the way merc used to back then lol. Bottas would never catch verstappen if not for broken FW and RW endplates. Verstappen was putting 0.7s on average over albon in first stint, then after he had damage albon was putting 0.5s on him with a tyre delta of only 10 laps, so completely the opposite.

Relative to the fastest Merc, max was slowely going backwards (see Max's radio when the team told him Merc was starting to push), Albon looked like he was dragging a parachute behind him compared to lewis (44 seconds benind).

Yes, merc (hamilton) is faster by a few tenths and probably 0.5s when flatout, but that's to be expected and in line with what we saw in preseason, first race and practice sessions. So RB is not really going backwards in the race, they're staying exactly where they're "supposed" to. Verstappen was able to counter bottas' laptimes in second stint with 10 laps older tyres and kept distance at 8-9s (still lapping 0.5s faster than albon who also had 10 laps fresher tyres) with 19 laps to go. Then as the car starts to fall apart suddenly his pace starts to drop off, while albon's gets better, initially able to match VER, then being 0.5s faster. Mind you, bottas wasn't particulary fast at this stage, barely keeping pace with albon of all people (perez much faster at this point).

Bottas was pacing himself for the attack later on the race... Him going at “90%” gave him the same pace than RBR at “100%” (for illustration only), ensuring that by the end of the race, he had enough tire delta to make the pass quickly...


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[mwillems]

They don't fill up the cars because they cannot use the extra fuel, because the tires overheat. It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Also filling up the whole fuel load would make the car heavy and slow (and is bad on tires too). While half-filling up during pit stops would not have that problem. You would use your whole fuel allotment too.
So Refueling is far from the worst thing F1 could reintroduce. How about grooved tires? Ugly and stupid.

"We don't need more pit stops" is just your opinion. Some people do enjoy the strategy part of F1 too, not just the racing on track. Besides, this will also give you more on track action/battles as the cars will be on different strategies and have to overtake more (and it will be easier too). Less processions.
F1 cars at pit speed limit is grossly overstated by you. It will just be 20 more seconds per car in a 2 hour race. And the race will be much better.

The other idea I had to allow for more pit-stop strategies to not suck (and not be used by the vast majority of cars as now), is to shorten pit entries/exits. Make the pit stops less time consuming and then the speed gains will be more appetizing.

The current cars don't use much fuel, Merc are winning most races with about 90-95kg of fuel. Even if they did allow refueling there would still only be 1 stop races. Nothing can change until the tires improve.

The strategy should be... go fast, I get no pleasure watching the fastest race cars in the world trundling down the pit lane at 60kph. The days of refueling in F1 were horrible, bo on track battles, cars on different sides if the track battling each other on the stopwatch rather than wheel to wheel. F1 should never ever go back to that bs.

If you're on light fuel you like 3 seconds a lap faster. That covers a pitstop delay in about 9 to
10 laps. Refuelling is the ticket. I have a solution for solving the disadvatnges of refuelling though.

Remember 2009... Early pitstops on like lap 12?!! Cars pushing hell for leather to gain a gap... Versus the 'oil tanker" strategy of slow and steady hoping for a saftey car or some other eventuality. It was intriguing, varied, unpredictable and fun to watch, for me at least.

I did enjoy it from a strategy sense but I'd prefer to see two equally fuelled cars pushing each other.

I like the ideas for 2022 and hope that we can bring back consistently closer racing, if it doesn't work then hell, bring back refuelling.

[notsofast]

Sorry for continuing this off-topic discussion...

This being a technical forum, and this being a hybrid era, wouldn't it make sense to allow teams to decide for themselves how much weight to allocate to batteries and how much weight to allocate to fuel? Perhaps that's an alternative way of introducing different strategies.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Sorry for continuing this off-topic discussion...

This being a technical forum, and this being a hybrid era, wouldn't it make sense to allow teams to decide for themselves how much weight to allocate to batteries and how much weight to allocate to fuel? Perhaps that's an alternative way of introducing different strategies.

The pu manufacturers decided that they didn't want to fight on that particular battle field.

[ENGINE TUNER]

STR should have been given a penalty for running RIC off track and another one for rejoining the track unsafely in front of NOR.

LEC not given a penalty for taking out a competitor.

A complete shot show by the stewards, again.

[Gothrek]

Reviewed the Leclerc - Vettel crash again, the more I see it, the less I understand Leclerc. Was it pure arrogance that he would think Vettel would dissappear for him? Just don’t get it. Such a rookie mistake.

[El Scorchio]

Reviewed the Leclerc - Vettel crash again, the more I see it, the less I understand Leclerc. Was it pure arrogance that he would think Vettel would dissappear for him? Just don’t get it. Such a rookie mistake.

It was just a really stupid move. He doesn't even have anything to prove to Vettel, or to prove by overtaking him. He's already 'won' that battle between the two drivers. He's cost his team dear and compounded an already really bad situation for them. After last week he should know the value of just keeping the car on the track until the end of the race, and who knows what might happen.

However, as stupid as the mistake was, he was big enough to publicly take the blame for it and apologise to his team and team mate. Respect to him for doing that.

[Manoah2u]

I think it was just the heat of the moment, and the frustration he must be having aswell. Let's face it, even if his seat is safe, Ferrari dropped the pace after being 'discovered' and making a FIA deal, and they're now miles away from the front. Nobody likes that, especially a young impatient hothead. Last race he got lucky and ended P2 despite all odds. This weekend was an absolute disaster filled with frustrations, he even got 'beat' by his retiring teammate. Then they get some new floors in the hope to make something out of it. First lap mayhem IS also the place where you CAN make up the most places at once and so, that's exactly what was on his mind.

IMO, i think he 'just' saw the tiniest of (risky) openings and decided to go for it, not expecting to be launched from the curb the way he did (i think that's still where you see he's inexperienced), with devastating results. If he saw any risk, I think it would have been wheels banging and i think that he would have taken that risk knowing how the weekend went anyway. Bowling his teammate out along the way most definately never was in his mind in any scenario in that split second though.

It was a brain freeze due to complete frustration from the weekend. I don't sugercoat it, but it's that simple i'd say.
It cost him dearly too, as he's now plummeted in the standings and he didn't make a good image with this. I am SURE Sainz will be taking notes, and if there's more frustration with LeClerc this season, then i'm confident Sainz is gonna go mindtricks on him next season so he can gain the upper hand and demand respect and come out on top.
Matter of fact, Sainz put in a pretty stellar performance for Mclaren.

[Zynerji]

If we kept the tires the same and brought back refueling, good chance the teams would go for a 60kg tank, starting with 30-35 kg on soft, and then slosh in 60kg at the second pitstop.

Same race, same outcome, almost just as heavy cars (10% lighter at most, the biggest amount on saved fuel is replaced with crash worthy valves and stuff), just the pitstop takes a lot longer and the cars will be slower during 60% of the race (because of the added weight). Just a faster first stint.

Don't worry about pitstop times... That can be sorted.

Having 2, 20 liter pop/swap tanks in the car would guarantee us 2 stops per race. 2 guaranteed stops will lead to drivers abusing their tyres more.

And the pit stops can stay sub-4 seconds.