2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Hammerfist
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:19 pm
We are now hearing that the engine is fine and redbull wont have any parts penalties.
Goes to show how overblown all of this is.
Their damage doesnt cost 1.8 million anymore.
Redbull is a nasty little team.

Marko is claiming he has video evidence and Hamilton should get a race ban or drive through penalty in the next race.
But is that what fans want to see?
Why do I get the feeling that the engine is not actually fine? I feel something is going to go wrong with either the engine or gearbox this weekend. Just a gut feeling. We shall see.

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Phil
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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If i were to guess, RedBull are pulling all stops to fight this harder, because they are either not that confident that the gap and their advantage will remain as it is, or indeed that the engine is compromised in some way. So they want to better their chances and extract every possible advantage they can - even if attempting to get an additional penalty for Hamilton or pull his race victory from Silverstone.

The further they are willing to take this, the more i’m inclined to think that Mercedes and Hamilton still have a very formidable chance in securing both championships. And even if not, at what cost will this year come to RedBull? At what sacrifice to the new era of F1 cars starting next year?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Phil wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:19 am
If i were to guess, RedBull are pulling all stops to fight this harder, because they are either not that confident that the gap and their advantage will remain as it is, or indeed that the engine is compromised in some way. So they want to better their chances and extract every possible advantage they can - even if attempting to get an additional penalty for Hamilton or pull his race victory from Silverstone.

The further they are willing to take this, the more i’m inclined to think that Mercedes and Hamilton still have a very formidable chance in securing both championships. And even if not, at what cost will this year come to RedBull? At what sacrifice to the new era of F1 cars starting next year?
I think it’s for 2 different reasons, as RBR are already 99% certain that the matter will not even be re-opened, or if it is, that it will certainly not be re-adjudicated:

1) Politics/attempt to distract Mercedes

2) Making Max feel warm and fuzzy like his team has his back

All that being said, I hope your prediction about the gap remaining close comes true so we can further enjoy the title fight. :)

b2bL44
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:36 am
Phil wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:19 am
If i were to guess, RedBull are pulling all stops to fight this harder, because they are either not that confident that the gap and their advantage will remain as it is, or indeed that the engine is compromised in some way. So they want to better their chances and extract every possible advantage they can - even if attempting to get an additional penalty for Hamilton or pull his race victory from Silverstone.

The further they are willing to take this, the more i’m inclined to think that Mercedes and Hamilton still have a very formidable chance in securing both championships. And even if not, at what cost will this year come to RedBull? At what sacrifice to the new era of F1 cars starting next year?
I think it’s for 2 different reasons, as RBR are already 99% certain that the matter will not even be re-opened, or if it is, that it will certainly not be re-adjudicated:

1) Politics/attempt to distract Mercedes

2) Making Max feel warm and fuzzy like his team has his back

All that being said, I hope your prediction about the gap remaining close comes true so we can further enjoy the title fight. :)
This is all just chest beating from Red Bull. They'll be in and out of that meeting with the FiA and make up some more nonsense about how unfair the world is.

IMO Hungary is going to be damage limitation for Mercedes looking at the hot weather.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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b2bL44 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:30 am
zibby43 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:36 am
Phil wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:19 am
If i were to guess, RedBull are pulling all stops to fight this harder, because they are either not that confident that the gap and their advantage will remain as it is, or indeed that the engine is compromised in some way. So they want to better their chances and extract every possible advantage they can - even if attempting to get an additional penalty for Hamilton or pull his race victory from Silverstone.

The further they are willing to take this, the more i’m inclined to think that Mercedes and Hamilton still have a very formidable chance in securing both championships. And even if not, at what cost will this year come to RedBull? At what sacrifice to the new era of F1 cars starting next year?
I think it’s for 2 different reasons, as RBR are already 99% certain that the matter will not even be re-opened, or if it is, that it will certainly not be re-adjudicated:

1) Politics/attempt to distract Mercedes

2) Making Max feel warm and fuzzy like his team has his back

All that being said, I hope your prediction about the gap remaining close comes true so we can further enjoy the title fight. :)
This is all just chest beating from Red Bull. They'll be in and out of that meeting with the FiA and make up some more nonsense about how unfair the world is.

IMO Hungary is going to be damage limitation for Mercedes looking at the hot weather.
Silverstone was a scorcher, too. 70% chance of thunderstorms on Sunday.

No need to punt on 3rd down yet.

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Juzh
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:27 pm
lol, I'd love to see what he supposedly has that the stewards didn't already have access to.
It's not unheard of. Remember 360 cam footage from austria last year that got hamilton a grid drop after being cleared beforehand.
I doubt something as significant and clear cut is present in this case however.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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After all this, the only thing that happens is Leclerc gets a 10 second penalty himself. For overtaking under a yellow :lol:

Bottas then promoted to 2nd and Mercedes gain 3 points :lol:
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i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:21 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:27 pm
lol, I'd love to see what he supposedly has that the stewards didn't already have access to.
It's not unheard of. Remember 360 cam footage from austria last year that got hamilton a grid drop after being cleared beforehand.
I doubt something as significant and clear cut is present in this case however.
Source?

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Juzh
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Diesel wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:43 am
Juzh wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:21 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:27 pm
lol, I'd love to see what he supposedly has that the stewards didn't already have access to.
It's not unheard of. Remember 360 cam footage from austria last year that got hamilton a grid drop after being cleared beforehand.
I doubt something as significant and clear cut is present in this case however.
Source?
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... qBy07.html
“The new video footage clearly shows that a yellow light panel was flashing on the left side of the track in turn 5. A green light panel was flashing at the end of marshalling sector 9. Taking into account these facts, the Stewards determine that decision 33 will be reversed and the above mentioned penalty is being imposed.”

i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:47 am
Diesel wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:43 am
Juzh wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:21 am

It's not unheard of. Remember 360 cam footage from austria last year that got hamilton a grid drop after being cleared beforehand.
I doubt something as significant and clear cut is present in this case however.
Source?
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... qBy07.html
“The new video footage clearly shows that a yellow light panel was flashing on the left side of the track in turn 5. A green light panel was flashing at the end of marshalling sector 9. Taking into account these facts, the Stewards determine that decision 33 will be reversed and the above mentioned penalty is being imposed.”
Got it, so it looks like it was because the 360 cam footage wasn't available to the stewards at the time. Here's what Masi had to say about it:
"It’s actually something that we’ve been speaking with FOM [about],” Masi said.

“Obviously, it’s not something it’s available live due to bandwidth. It needs to be downloaded off the car, processed, et cetera.”

Masi also explained how the request to re-open the case had come about, under F1’s right of review rules.

“There’s been some misquotation that it was a ‘protest’ from Red Bull. It wasn’t actually a protest,” he said. “It was a question that they raised of: ‘Is this a new and significant element?’

“Which is why there was actually two separate decisions. That’s why the first decision is: Is it a new and significant element? The stewards determined that, yes, it was.

“Then, obviously, they went into a hearing as a result of that and determined that, effectively, if they’d had that footage [on Saturday], they would have deemed and came to the same decision they did prior to the race.”
As you say, I can't see the 360 cam footage making a difference here, so it's unlikely to be something used in the review today.

Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Diesel wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:43 am
Juzh wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:21 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:27 pm
lol, I'd love to see what he supposedly has that the stewards didn't already have access to.
It's not unheard of. Remember 360 cam footage from austria last year that got hamilton a grid drop after being cleared beforehand.
I doubt something as significant and clear cut is present in this case however.
Source?
It was a protest, not a review. Redbull protested because of the yellow flag in the last sector when Bottas was "mowing the lawn" in his own words, at the first GP last year.

Biggest differences were: It was before the event and there was no penalty executed for the offence. RedBull missed the chance for a protest between the verdict of the 10s penalty and the execution at the pitstop.

i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:50 am
Diesel wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:43 am
Juzh wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:21 am

It's not unheard of. Remember 360 cam footage from austria last year that got hamilton a grid drop after being cleared beforehand.
I doubt something as significant and clear cut is present in this case however.
Source?
It was a protest, not a review. Redbull protested because of the yellow flag in the last sector when Bottas was "mowing the lawn" in his own words, at the first GP last year.

Biggest differences were: It was before the event and there was no penalty executed for the offence. RedBull missed the chance for a protest between the verdict of the 10s penalty and the execution at the pitstop.
Masi said it wasn't a protest, and was done under the right to review...

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atanatizante
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Phil wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:19 am
If i were to guess, RedBull are pulling all stops to fight this harder, because they are either not that confident that the gap and their advantage will remain as it is, or indeed that the engine is compromised in some way. So they want to better their chances and extract every possible advantage they can - even if attempting to get an additional penalty for Hamilton or pull his race victory from Silverstone.

The further they are willing to take this, the more I’m inclined to think that Mercedes and Hamilton still have a very formidable chance in securing both championships. And even if not, at what cost will this year come to RedBull? At what sacrifice to the new era of F1 cars starting next year?
I back you on that regarding Merc further races on this season for reading about Toto doing a cut out of his salary to have money for the essential and relevant aero upgrades. But I think it`s just a rumour for the reason that the top management salaries are not taking into account in the cost cap budget, isn`t it?

Furthermore, it`ll be interesting to see what will be VER`s attitude toward HAM in racing but from what he declared and most of all from his mentality I don`t think he`d change his approach! From my point of view had he was wiser he should have left HAM pass at Copse knowing he could win the race due to having the edge o race pace, although I have a feeling that after 13 laps he was 0.2 tenths faster on medium - C2 tyre (on the sprit race) but equal if not marginal slower on hard - C1 tyres (just as LEC was). Worst case scenario for being second at the end of the race he`d have lost only 7 points in the end...

Therefore is it me or it seems that this year situation is inverted from last year, with VER having now the faster and all type of race tracksuited car but not having the HAM mentality to see the long game, back off and live for another day mentality?
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WaikeCU
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Not sure if this is completely true, but I think my mate who works in the automobile industry told me that Merc management in Stuttgart weren't ready to fund for a lot of the updates this season as the momentum in development had already shifted towards 2022. Because of that Toto had to fund it himself, so there were rumours he has sold quite a lot of his unique cars just to able to fund these upgrades on the cars this season.

Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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WaikeCU wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:32 pm
Not sure if this is completely true, but I think my mate who works in the automobile industry told me that Merc management in Stuttgart weren't ready to fund for a lot of the updates this season as the momentum in development had already shifted towards 2022. Because of that Toto had to fund it himself, so there were rumours he has sold quite a lot of his unique cars just to able to fund these upgrades on the cars this season.
I presume if Toto Wolff, with his team, after seven world championships are questioned like that by a higher management over internal shifts in their budget, they all quit on the spot.

so I don't think that its true.