2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:14 pm
Juzh wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:10 pm
SiLo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:25 pm


hard to say really, Merc were fastest in Hungary, Spa in the dry, Monza, Sochi... Zandvoort they were a tad behind. Their real problem is that Hungary was wet and they made the wrong call on the tyres. Spa was wet, Monza saw Lewis with a shite start and probably, not an optimal use of Bottas in qualifying.

They should really be further ahead in the championship than they are (Likewise for Red Bull with the crashes/being punted).

I think they have found more speed from the car and its going to be incredible close at every single race. I could see them going well in Turkey, might be the best place for an engine penalty for Lewis tbh if they really do need to take one.
it's so easy to overtake with DRS in turkey I fully expect them to take the hit if they really have to and start from the back. I remember last year when it dried out enough and DRS was enabled everyone who had just a bit better pace as the car ahead flew by like it was nothing. Impossible to defend.
it's just an excellent track that actually allowed overtaking.
Indeed. The chicane leading onto the back straight is ideal for making it easier to have a good run. Awesome track! Just hope the surface is better this year so they can really push.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:10 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:04 pm
Anyway, point being that I think it's a really complex decision for them to make, and the last thing they want to do it commit to it in Turkey, unless it's necessary, to then find out there are only 3 races remaining which maybe they could have done with the engines they have. I would HATE to be the person in charge of making that decision. I think they will just have to be prepared to do it at short notice on any given weekend depending on how qualifying evolves.
Honestly, I think Bottas's 5th was purely to try and hamper Max, and to allow Bottas's to push harder in the remaining races!
I do as well. I think they just couldn't communicate it as the real reason.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Taking an engine would best be left as long as possible. There could (easily?) be a time when Lewis is not going to be starting in the top 4 rows, and possibly undefined track conditions on race day when a pitlane start would be a benefit, as they could alter settings and take free tyre choice (do you get free tyre choice from the pit lane if you qualfy in the top ten??)

It would be a real wind up if this happened the race after a new engine was taken as it looked an easy over take.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:16 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:10 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:04 pm
Anyway, point being that I think it's a really complex decision for them to make, and the last thing they want to do it commit to it in Turkey, unless it's necessary, to then find out there are only 3 races remaining which maybe they could have done with the engines they have. I would HATE to be the person in charge of making that decision. I think they will just have to be prepared to do it at short notice on any given weekend depending on how qualifying evolves.
Honestly, I think Bottas's 5th was purely to try and hamper Max, and to allow Bottas's to push harder in the remaining races!
I do as well. I think they just couldn't communicate it as the real reason.
I also wonder if it isn't a ruse to make Red Bull think Lewis will take a new PU at some point.

He's had one issue all year and that was in Zandvoort practice. It was his first PU of the season and they said the only reason he stopped was "abnormal oil system behaviour".

With no race in Spa, half a race in Monza, and Mexico and brazil being iffy, I do question if he needs another.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:35 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:16 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:10 pm


Honestly, I think Bottas's 5th was purely to try and hamper Max, and to allow Bottas's to push harder in the remaining races!
I do as well. I think they just couldn't communicate it as the real reason.
I also wonder if it isn't a ruse to make Red Bull think Lewis will take a new PU at some point.

He's had one issue all year and that was in Zandvoort practice. It was his first PU of the season and they said the only reason he stopped was "abnormal oil system behaviour".

With no race in Spa, half a race in Monza, and Mexico and brazil being iffy, I do question if he needs another.
Completely agree. It did seem a bit out of nowhere that it came all of a sudden as something they needed to do. Bottas obviously needed one because of Imola.

mstar
mstar
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Merc need to make the decision soon NO way they want to leave it for the last 2 races to take a new PU as the championship be finished if he be reliying on Max having DNFs

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ringo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:42 pm

Well you're right but I don't know...I feel like sometimes it's taking him too long to get past someone just like Monza! I don't think he would have past Norris had it not rained at the end! And the same goes for Monza...

Yeah he isn't taking many risks with the experience he has now! But the starts have been awful the last 2 races and Monza cost him a lot of points...he shouldn't have been anywhere near Verstapen in the first place!

Anyway, I feel that this year both Mercedes and Lewis have made more mistakes than recent years! We are racing against Red Bull which are much harder to beat than Ferrari was in 2017-2018!

p.s. I don't understand what Bottas is trying to prove...Russell would have made the job much harder for Verstapen I think!
It is not his best season. In fact this is one of the weakest from the team and driver. But despite all these issues, he is still leading. That says a lot about the competition!
In no way am I saying Lewis is having flawless weekends. But I think outside of race starts, he is driving very measured and also fast enough on the track and that is why he is leading the championship.
We cannot really look on any race and say Lewis has been slow this year. He has been pressuringly quick the whole season. He has also not put a foot wrong apart from lap 1 monza trying to go outside of max, and then when he went around russel in the rain and slid off the track.
But again.. his worst his better than redbull's best and the points standing is showing that. So the team have to maximize going forward.
If hamilton wins this championship I would not call it his best. I think his best ones were 2008,2014,2015. The vettel years 2017,2018 the fight did not go down to the wire.
For Sure!!

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ringo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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They need to pressure Max at all times. So taking a penalty when he is on pole is a bad move.
The engine change should only come where max will win 100% and that's mexico. ie if the engine is needed.
They need to stay close to max and get his temper riled up again to make him crash. It sounds silly, but with the car he has underneath him, he needs to drop 25 more points for me to think Mercedes has a chance to win these championships.
If Lewis wins, I will think it was a lucky championship because the car nor team were the best. But I would take it, and I would still say that he was the best driver of the season.
For Sure!!

mstar
mstar
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Wasn't it Honda who said unlike Merc, they can run their engines on full power for longer without deterioration over time? It seems to me with engine issues from the other merc teams i am not sure i am convinced merc can survive without a engine change for lewis

saputra_25
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I want Lando keeps his performance and scores big, Thus eating points from Max. And Finaly Lewis win DWC this year, would be a perfect 8 for him [-o<

Gillian
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
It is not his best season. In fact this is one of the weakest from the team and driver. But despite all these issues, he is still leading. That says a lot about the competition!
The only competition Hamilton has this season is Verstappen in the Red Bull. Verstappen has had terrible luck on occasion so I'm not sure what you mean by this?


ringo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
In no way am I saying Lewis is having flawless weekends. But I think outside of race starts, he is driving very measured and also fast enough on the track and that is why he is leading the championship.
We cannot really look on any race and say Lewis has been slow this year. He has been pressuringly quick the whole season.

Lewis, uncharacteristically, actually has been slow this year. Remember Monaco? He was way off the pace like I haven't seen a lot.. ever.

ringo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
He has also not put a foot wrong apart from lap 1 monza trying to go outside of max, and then when he went around russel in the rain and slid off the track.

He has not put a foot wrong but he messed up in Imola (and got lucky), mistakes in Monza, Silverstone (imo a big mistake, very lucky to not crash himself), Baku (could have been an easy +25 on Verstappen)...

ringo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
But again.. his worst his better than redbull's best and the points standing is showing that. So the team have to maximize going forward.
His worst is better than redbull's best? What are you even saying here?

ringo wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:03 pm
If hamilton wins this championship I would not call it his best. I think his best ones were 2008,2014,2015. The vettel years 2017,2018 the fight did not go down to the wire.

2018 was his best season imo, I can't even remember a single real mistake he made that year. I did not doubt a second Hamilton would take the championship and he totally deserved it. Vettel cracked under pressure but Hamilton aced it.

This season however is one of his worst seasons. The sole he reason he is leading it is because he has no competition from Bottas, who seems so have checked out already and Verstappen had terrible luck for most of the season.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Fight for the Championship Race Track Outlook

Tyre Characteristics of tracks at which Mercedes were comfortably fastest:

Shocking that Merc only been clearly faster on three tracks! And I have double checked! :shock:

Monza -Q3 Gap to rival 0.3s
Traction 3
Braking 4
Lateral 2
Tyre Stress 5
Asphalt grip 2
Asphalt abrasion 3
Downforce 1

Hungary -Q3 Gap to rival 0.4s
Traction 3
Braking 2
Lateral 4
Tyre Stress 3
Asphalt grip 3
Asphalt abrasion 2
Downforce 5

Portimao -Q3 Gap to rival 0.4s
Traction 4
Braking 4
Lateral 3
Tyre Stress 4
Asphalt grip ? (low from observation )
Asphalt abrasion ? (low from observation)
Downforce 4

It seems the car favours medium traction tracks (3 to 4), with moderate to high tyre stress (3 to 5). The car also had an advantage on slipperier tracks Asphalt grip and abrasion (low).


Upcoming Track

Istanbul Park

Traction 4
Braking 3
Lateral 4
Tyre Stress 5
Asphalt grip ? (expected to be low)
Asphalt abrasion ? (expected to be low)
Downforce 4

Judging by Istanbul Park's tyre parameters, Mercedes should in theory be ahead of RedBull! Well, the lateral rating of 4 mirrors Hungary, but Mercedes were stronger than RedBull there. So fingers crossed!
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:35 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:16 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:10 pm


Honestly, I think Bottas's 5th was purely to try and hamper Max, and to allow Bottas's to push harder in the remaining races!
I do as well. I think they just couldn't communicate it as the real reason.
I also wonder if it isn't a ruse to make Red Bull think Lewis will take a new PU at some point.

He's had one issue all year and that was in Zandvoort practice. It was his first PU of the season and they said the only reason he stopped was "abnormal oil system behaviour".

With no race in Spa, half a race in Monza, and Mexico and brazil being iffy, I do question if he needs another.
2020 the Merc pu’s were gone in Abu Dhabi. That is why Verstappen won there, despite being 0,3s slower al season. I believe they even tuned them up a little more this season, because of the battle.

holeindalip
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Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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NL_Fer wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:36 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:35 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:16 pm


I do as well. I think they just couldn't communicate it as the real reason.
I also wonder if it isn't a ruse to make Red Bull think Lewis will take a new PU at some point.

He's had one issue all year and that was in Zandvoort practice. It was his first PU of the season and they said the only reason he stopped was "abnormal oil system behaviour".

With no race in Spa, half a race in Monza, and Mexico and brazil being iffy, I do question if he needs another.
2020 the Merc pu’s were gone in Abu Dhabi. That is why Verstappen won there, despite being 0,3s slower al season. I believe they even tuned them up a little more this season, because of the battle.
Abu Dhabi has been mercs breeding grounds for years just like russia, last year was just an anomaly as stated. Mercs couldn’t get temps into the oily wet surface in turkey last year so we will see what happens this year, as redbull was the car to beat there last year….