2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:27 pm
etusch wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:05 pm
LaplacesDemon wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:58 pm


Plenums, hydraulics and looms in that area are one of the few remaining PU components that can be replaced without penalty provided they are of identical specification.
I thought Redbull car hit merc's engine cover. But I think there is not damage at engine cover. But if it were damaged it would cause many broken parts went in the cylinder. at least I thought in this way.
These PU’s have an air filter, debris wouldn’t reach the cylinders.
is that filter between inlet and plenum or before plenum ?

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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Villeneuve Slams FIA for Breaking Their Own ‘Consequences’ Rule in Hamilton-Verstappen Crash Verdict

https://www.essentiallysports.com/ville ... oXGPBJph7g

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I don't think Max deserved a penalty here, but this is Jolyon's analysis:



He says it's a close one, but compared to previous incidents there, Verstappen wasn't far enough alongside into the corner making it a bit more his fault (just as the stewards concluded).

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FW17
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Which engine was Max using this race, was it slated for more races before the 4th unit being taken?
First thing I was concerned about was the damage to the engine after it landed on the roll hoop.

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Perez absolutely deserved a penalty after not giving the position back.
Felipe Baby!

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:26 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:09 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:39 pm
I doubt Verstappen can do with just an ICE, probably the TC and MGU-K were hampered to by the sudden loss of cooling.
Hope so, I fear they will change the ES too to the new spec and therefore have to start from the pitlane
I think the PU components are all locked this year, so no new spec allowed. A start from the pitlane is the rule when you change something in parc ferme for another spec (between start from qualifying till after the race start).
ES spec update to improve reliabity has been approved. This is why Perez started from the pitlane in Zandvoort and Gasly from pitlane in Monza.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Alexf1 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:45 am
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:26 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:09 pm


Hope so, I fear they will change the ES too to the new spec and therefore have to start from the pitlane
I think the PU components are all locked this year, so no new spec allowed. A start from the pitlane is the rule when you change something in parc ferme for another spec (between start from qualifying till after the race start).
ES spec update to improve reliabity has been approved. This is why Perez started from the pitlane in Zandvoort and Gasly from pitlane in Monza.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf
Every PU component when it's frozen can have "reliability upgrades". Perez had to start from the pitlane because it was during Parc Ferme

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:58 am
Alexf1 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:45 am
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:26 pm


I think the PU components are all locked this year, so no new spec allowed. A start from the pitlane is the rule when you change something in parc ferme for another spec (between start from qualifying till after the race start).
ES spec update to improve reliabity has been approved. This is why Perez started from the pitlane in Zandvoort and Gasly from pitlane in Monza.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf
Every PU component when it's frozen can have "reliability upgrades".

Perez had to start from the pitlane because it was during Parc Ferme.
That is not correct.
From the FIA documents:

Car 11: ES (new)

The part has been replaced with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request
from the team concerned, this being in accordance with Article 34.2 of the 2021 Formula One
Sporting Regulations.
But as the above part is different from the one originally used and also changes have been made to
the set up of the car (with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request), car
number 11 should now be required to start from the pit lane according to Article 34.8b of the 2021
Formula One Sporting Regulations.

Because he had to start from the pitlane, they changed also the setup. Has nothing to do with Parc Fermé.


Galsy had the same in Monza.

Car 11: ES (new)

The part has been replaced with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request
from the team concerned, this being in accordance with Article 34.2 of the 2021 Formula One
Sporting Regulations.
But as the above part is different from the one originally used and also changes have been made to
the set up of the car (with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request), car
number 11 should now be required to start from the pit lane according to Article 34.8b of the 2021
Formula One Sporting Regulations.
The Power of Honda!

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Can we expect some more Hybrid performance now that the ES is more reliable? I remember Gasly and Perez were geven a new ES during Bahrain weekend. And Tsunoda in Imola.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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We'll know for sure in Sochi, although this is reliability, nothing spectacular.
Saishū kōnā

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:21 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:58 am
Alexf1 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:45 am


ES spec update to improve reliabity has been approved. This is why Perez started from the pitlane in Zandvoort and Gasly from pitlane in Monza.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf
Every PU component when it's frozen can have "reliability upgrades".

Perez had to start from the pitlane because it was during Parc Ferme.
That is not correct.
From the FIA documents:

Car 11: ES (new)

The part has been replaced with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request
from the team concerned, this being in accordance with Article 34.2 of the 2021 Formula One
Sporting Regulations.
But as the above part is different from the one originally used and also changes have been made to
the set up of the car (with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request), car
number 11 should now be required to start from the pit lane according to Article 34.8b of the 2021
Formula One Sporting Regulations.

Because he had to start from the pitlane, they changed also the setup. Has nothing to do with Parc Fermé.


Galsy had the same in Monza.

Car 11: ES (new)

The part has been replaced with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request
from the team concerned, this being in accordance with Article 34.2 of the 2021 Formula One
Sporting Regulations.
But as the above part is different from the one originally used and also changes have been made to
the set up of the car (with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request), car
number 11 should now be required to start from the pit lane according to Article 34.8b of the 2021
Formula One Sporting Regulations.
Both were changed in Parc Ferme. From the letters:

As the energy store is a different specification and was changed whilst the car was in parc ferme, the competitor is required to start the race from the pit lane per article 34.8 b) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:39 pm
We'll know for sure in Sochi, although this is reliability, nothing spectacular.
I hope not. Two ES had to be replaced before the first race and a third (and fouth) one was changed before the second race. The ES was breaking down most during the period the Honda PO was at it's best... I hope we see the return of the beast they started the season with.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:21 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:58 am


Every PU component when it's frozen can have "reliability upgrades".

Perez had to start from the pitlane because it was during Parc Ferme.
That is not correct.
From the FIA documents:

Car 11: ES (new)

The part has been replaced with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request
from the team concerned, this being in accordance with Article 34.2 of the 2021 Formula One
Sporting Regulations.
But as the above part is different from the one originally used and also changes have been made to
the set up of the car (with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request), car
number 11 should now be required to start from the pit lane according to Article 34.8b of the 2021
Formula One Sporting Regulations.

Because he had to start from the pitlane, they changed also the setup. Has nothing to do with Parc Fermé.


Galsy had the same in Monza.

Car 11: ES (new)

The part has been replaced with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request
from the team concerned, this being in accordance with Article 34.2 of the 2021 Formula One
Sporting Regulations.
But as the above part is different from the one originally used and also changes have been made to
the set up of the car (with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request), car
number 11 should now be required to start from the pit lane according to Article 34.8b of the 2021
Formula One Sporting Regulations.
Both were changed in Parc Ferme. From the letters:

As the energy store is a different specification and was changed whilst the car was in parc ferme, the competitor is required to start the race from the pit lane per article 34.8 b) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
In which FIA document is that stated?
I can't find what you're posting.
Can you give me the number and description?

Zandvoort, Perez: https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... nformation

Monza, Gasly: https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... nformation
The Power of Honda!

Alexf1
Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Alexf1 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:41 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:39 pm
We'll know for sure in Sochi, although this is reliability, nothing spectacular.
I hope not. Two ES had to be replaced before the first race and a third (and fouth) one was changed before the second race. The ES was breaking down most during the period the Honda PO was at it's best... I hope we see the return of the beast they started the season with.
Maybe Max already has the new spec ES. He was the only Honda driver to receive a new ES at the beginning of the Spa weekend. Can't see anything mentioned about a possible specification change in the FIA "New PU elements document" of Spa. In that same type of doc at the French GP there was also no mention of any new specification of the new PU elements that the Honda drivers took (although AMUS said a new spec TC was introduced) so maybe it's only mentioned by Fia if change of spec is taking place under Parc Fermee. That could mean only Yuki is not on the new spec ES yet, but he already has 3 in his pool so with him the gain is maybe not worth the pain yet.
Do we know if a stronger ERS mode is used by any of the Honda drivers with the new spec ES compared to before? It could explain why Max was behind Merc before summer break and came out ahead after.
Last edited by Alexf1 on Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:47 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:21 pm


That is not correct.
From the FIA documents:





Because he had to start from the pitlane, they changed also the setup. Has nothing to do with Parc Fermé.


Galsy had the same in Monza.


Both were changed in Parc Ferme. From the letters:

As the energy store is a different specification and was changed whilst the car was in parc ferme, the competitor is required to start the race from the pit lane per article 34.8 b) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
In which FIA document is that stated?
I can't find what you're posting.
Can you give me the number and description?

Zandvoort, Perez: https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... nformation

Monza, Gasly: https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... nformation
This gets a bit silly.

From doc_50 at the Italian GP, Gasly:
As the energy store is a different specification and was changed whilst the car was in
parc ferme, the competitor is required to start the race from the pit lane per article
34.8 b) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

from the dutch GP, Perez in this case:
As the energy store is a different specification and was changed whilst the car was in
parc ferme, the competitor is required to start the race from the pit lane per article
34.8 b) of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf