Mercedes W12

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rifrafs2kees
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Repeated post deleted

b2bL44
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Big Tea wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:46 am
ferkan wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:41 am
Got to say, that doesnt look like flow wiz leftover.
But could it be abrasion by material carried in the same airstream that moves the flowviz
Flow viz residue is the first thing that came to my mind. It could also be abrasive material as you say or, as Somers has pointed out:
These alleged scuff marks may point to the main wing element not being rigid and instead flexing up and down, although they could be something totally unrelated like emulsification caused by a dirty air flow.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... s/6799427/

All in all, this just seems like a desperate effort by the RBR camp to spread disinformation in an attempt to destabilise Lewis and Merc. So far it's been a failure.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Mercedes W12

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rifrafs2kees wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:39 am
Different subject here, W12 starts. Could the nonlinear heave spring, which allows the rear to squat as downforce increases impact traction off the line? Anecdotally, the Rbs seam to have better starts. Wondering why.
One theory that comes to mind is that rearward weight transfer associated with starts coupled with a "regressive" spring rate at the break over point might impact traction...
I imagine that .....

there is connected to the rear wheels only a spring called a heave spring
connected to the front wheels only another spring called a heave spring
these shouldn't be called heave springs .....

they could be called front common mode springs and rear common mode springs
heave is the 'vertical' motion common to the whole unsprung vehicle
a heave spring presumably would likely exist only if the front and rear suspensions were somewhat interconnected ?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes W12

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The cars have 1000hp and about 650 foot pounds of torque yet they only weigh about 840kg off the line.

The rear tyres are also relatively low pressure and very soft at thw start of the race.

The suspension setting shouldn't affect the wheelspin much at all versus the influence of 650 foot pounds of torque on such a light chassi and soft tyres. It's more the clutch release and the track surface.

Also remember that the suspension doesnt activate until after very high vertical loads only seen when driving at high speed.
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levidrugi
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Owen.C93 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:22 pm
Here's an overlay gif comparing the W12 in USA when it's stopped and at speed. You can definitely see the slot gap open up.

https://i.imgur.com/seOnrMS.gif

Raw images:
https://i.imgur.com/eI6ZbDx.png
https://i.imgur.com/yViJF3P.png

And preempting the arguments about angles. That static shot should be a less favorable angle because it's from a higher position which should show the slot gap slightly more.
Just registered an account to see what you think. I may be over-exaggerating though :)
Image

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pursue_one's
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Re: Mercedes W12

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According to Bottas, Mercedes have recently discovered a new way of setup the car which is gaining performance in hi speed corners.

https://www-is-fi.translate.goog/formul ... tr_pto=nui

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west52keep64
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Owen.C93 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:49 pm
I didn't say it wasn't allowed. I'm just showing the gap when stood still and when at speed to try and figure out what RBR are referring to.

Here's 2 decently similar angles from high speed and stood still. Need to find something a bit sharper and a higher speed though.
I can see through the gap on both images, if you look at the center you can see the twin supports in both images. The difference you are seeing could be partly down to the contrast of the image, the bottom image has a much higher contrast.

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west52keep64
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Re: Mercedes W12

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levidrugi wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:55 pm
Just registered an account to see what you think. I may be over-exaggerating though :)
https://i.imgur.com/InNCvxe.gif
If anything, this probably just proves that it is in fact a registration mark from when the wing was fitted in a different configuration. It lines up perfectly. If it was moving like that we would be seeing it from the front.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Mercedes W12

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west52keep64 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:08 pm
levidrugi wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:55 pm
Just registered an account to see what you think. I may be over-exaggerating though :)
https://i.imgur.com/InNCvxe.gif
If anything, this probably just proves that it is in fact a registration mark from when the wing was fitted in a different configuration. It lines up perfectly. If it was moving like that we would be seeing it from the front.
Exactly. Thats what I suspected too. It was pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't have some bias skepticism that it would be impractical to sugges the carbon could flex in such a way to follow those 'marks' without leaving obvious stress marks along the main plane wing where it bends, and I think it would likely fail a test if it did what they think it does.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Mercedes W12

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I can't see the difference between Sochi and Qatar on the floor detail here?

Sochi
Image

Qatar
Image

wesley123
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Re: Mercedes W12

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RZS10 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:56 pm
Would something like this even be feasible from a carbon/material standpoint?
https://i.imgur.com/mVFwkFC.gif
Bit late to this party, but yes it would be plausible. While your image is hugely exaggerated, there definitely is the possibility of elasticity.

An example that is not that far from home is the Toyota TS-040 at the 2014 24h of Le Mans, this is to believed that there was some form of elasticity in the pieces behind the rear wheels, which enabled the whole wing to pivot.

These cars already had their 'flexi' wings, and 'bendy' wings, which all rely on elasticity of some sort.
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RZS10
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Re: Mercedes W12

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The image shows how far it would have to bend back in order to create the "scratches" - i posed it as a question but i believe it wouldn't really be doable to that excess + it would be easily noticeable in the rear view onboard.

edit: I should maybe elaborate.
This is towards the end of the straight during the overtake on Max with DRS open vs. closed & already cornering.
There's a continuous curvature (indicated in red) - the white lines, which are the edges, essentially line up between both shots.

Image

It's a bit of a guess but the wing would have to bend a LOT at the height of the white dot, roughly half height between lowest point and the DRS flap.

It's a bit blurry unfortunately, that's from youtube 1080p, there's probably also some footage from another race with the sun shining onto the wing beautifully, making it easier to see that edge.
Last edited by RZS10 on Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W12

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:32 pm
I can't see the difference between Sochi and Qatar on the floor detail here?

Sochi
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FACTReLVEAg-sDL?format=jpg

Qatar
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... tail-1.jpg
Sir needs glasses.

Look at the shape of the VGs, noting that the direction of air flow is not the same in both images.
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AeroDynamic
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:07 am
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:32 pm
I can't see the difference between Sochi and Qatar on the floor detail here?

Sochi
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FACTReLVEAg-sDL?format=jpg

Qatar
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... tail-1.jpg
Sir needs glasses.

Look at the shape of the VGs, noting that the direction of air flow is not the same in both images.
I don't see it. The position etc all looks the asme to me. the angle of the photo is the only thing that makes the shapes of those little 'sticky-upy' bits look a little different.. perhaps if someone could draw on these to show a blind man what hes not seeing.. lol

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RZS10
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Direction of the airflow is the same? (arrow points to front of the car)
Image
Judging by an image (inlay) from this post there's no difference to the shape either.