Mercedes W12

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MartijnA3
MartijnA3
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Re: Mercedes W12

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And this was the W11, same corner Austria 2020. No gap. You can clearly see the brake duct fins stick out:
Image

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lio007
292
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Mercedes W12

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MartijnA3 wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:38 am
And this was the W11, same corner Austria 2020. No gap. You can clearly see the brake duct fins stick out:
Image
It seems they have pitot tubes under the floor?

zibby43
zibby43
611
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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MartijnA3 wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:38 am
And this was the W11, same corner Austria 2020. No gap. You can clearly see the brake duct fins stick out:
Image
Great shot. Thanks for finding it.

marcush
marcush
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:26 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:48 pm
I couldn't find a good image of the W11, but hear is one of the W10.

Those massive winglets at the bottom of the duct assembly aren't allowed anymore, They can't be as wide or as low as pictured. All they did was shoot air down between the tire and diffuser to prevent tire squirt from entering the diffuser areas.

https://cdn-4.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... duct-1.jpg

Edit:
here is the w09 from the back showing how big they are.
https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... brakes.jpg
Why not put the cut off
pieces of brake duct as floor extensions to the sides of the diffusser ? I understand you have to respect bodywork regulations but there is some
tolerance zone on top of the floor were you can do whatever you want ....I think its 50mm in height , this is effectively opening the door to all those deflectors, fins and vgs we see on top of the floor .
isnt this allowed in the tyre /diffusser area as well?
whenlooking at the sculpting of the difusser bellmouth near the tyre treatment there must be scope to seal the tyre from the difusser ...

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dans79
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Mercedes W12

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marcush wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:58 pm
dans79 wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:48 pm
I couldn't find a good image of the W11, but hear is one of the W10.

Those massive winglets at the bottom of the duct assembly aren't allowed anymore, They can't be as wide or as low as pictured. All they did was shoot air down between the tire and diffuser to prevent tire squirt from entering the diffuser areas.

https://cdn-4.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... duct-1.jpg

Edit:
here is the w09 from the back showing how big they are.
https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... brakes.jpg
Why not put the cut off
pieces of brake duct as floor extensions to the sides of the diffusser ? I understand you have to respect bodywork regulations but there is some
tolerance zone on top of the floor were you can do whatever you want ....I think its 50mm in height , this is effectively opening the door to all those deflectors, fins and vgs we see on top of the floor .
isnt this allowed in the tyre /diffusser area as well?
whenlooking at the sculpting of the difusser bellmouth near the tyre treatment there must be scope to seal the tyre from the difusser ...
One of the actual aerodynamicists on the forum would need to chime in. My assumption would be that the flow in that area is no longer clean enough or energized enough to be beneficial.
191 103 103 7

marcush
marcush
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:26 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Sure those brakeduct mounted wings work directly on producing vertical force
whereas mounting them to the floor would make them part of the entire sprung mass and so can only live between the stepped floor surface and 50(?)mm above the stepplane ..but still they coud seal this area ?

b2bL44
b2bL44
22
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:46 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:07 am
I have been determined to get to the bottom of the Mercedes W12 token spend, so I figured I would look at the list of token items , and try a process of elimination to identify the most likely token items on the W12.

These are the general token areas that were allowed for the 2021 F1 season:

Survival Cell
Primary Roll structure
Front Floor Structure
Front Impact structure
Rear impact structure
Pedals
Plank
DRS system
Gearbox
Gear change components
Clutch
Inboard Front Suspension
Front Axles, Bearings, Nuts, Retention System
Inboard Rear Suspension
Rear Axles, bearings, nuts, and retention system
Wheel Rims
TPMS
Brake System
Fuel System
Hydraulic System
Water-Oil or Water-Water Coolers
Electrical looms
Drinks system
Driver Radio
Data Loggers
Fire extinguisher
Pitstop Equipment

Based on this video around 1:28, the following components were recycled from last season: Survival cell, Gearbox, Gear Change components, Fuel system, Hydraulic system.


Based on my estimation, the following components would have been foolish to waste tokens on in light of the new floor regulations: Drinks system, Fire Extinguisher, TPMS, Data Loggers, Driver Radio, Electrical Looms, Clutch, DRS System, Pedals

Based on my estimation, the following components simply have not been changed: Pitstop Equipment, (Front Axles, Bearings, Nuts, Retention System), (Rear Axles, bearings, nuts, and retention system), Front Impact Structure, Rear Impact Structure.

That leaves us with an absolute list of the only remaining token items available for the Mercedes W12:
  • Primary Roll structure (2 Tokens)
  • Front Floor Structure (1 Token)
  • Plank (1 Token)
  • Inboard Front Suspension (2 Tokens)
  • Inboard Rear Suspension (2 Tokens)
  • Wheel Rims (2 Tokens)
  • Brake System (1 Token per component)
  • Water-Oil or Water-Water Coolers (2 Tokens)
Both Mercedes and Aston Martin suffered gearbox issues in the Bahrain pre-season test. This could point to changes, but Allison said the transmission was the same as last season. Odd. Also, it would have been a waste considering the floor changes that most other teams targeted there token development around.

What do you people think they spent tokens on from the 8 remaining items.

Here are my main guesses
  • Front floor structure seems like a plausible target as it would directly relate to the floor cuts. As a single token item, it would most likely be paired with the plank as the second token item.
  • Water-oil and water-water coolers is plausible given the new engine intake system and the intercoolers
  • Wheel rims are plausible as they can be used to control tire temperature. We know that Mercedes have struggled to generate tire temperatures this season
Competitors are allowed only 2 tokens. Therefore, if a single token item was selected, then another single token item must have been used alongside to consume 2 tokens. Alternatively, one double token item can be selected.
I knew I'd be coming back to this fantastic write up, so thank you for putting this together. In the video you've linked James Allison specifically stated that there is no W11 present from 2020 to compare to when introducing and explaining the W12 as so many bits have been recycled and reused on the W12 itself.

Well lo and behold look what's turned up at the factory this week, Lewis' British GP winning W11 from 2020:



If the show car W11 has now been put together, it stands to reason that the W12 has been taken apart, right?

marcush
marcush
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:26 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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it's all blabla , smokescreens and whathave you .
Why on earth would you retire a car after a single event ? That's givung away the sheer abundance of resource at Mercedes to allow such things to happen , because they can....
The carryover for this team was design
not physical parts taken from last years cars .So the actual physical carry over is
spare parts they had in stock .
As Aston Martin uses a lot of those lifed parts,as well ,I doubt you will find a lot of
2020 produced bits on currently campaigned W12s..

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Image

Image

Image

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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It'll be interesting to see what rear wing they run this weekend.

Vaexa
Vaexa
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Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:58 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Wasn't the scalloped floor a Mercedes invention? Weird that they've gone back to a regular floor.

Doesn't seem like a huge update package to me, but that's in line with the noises coming from Mercedes themselves.

zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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Vaexa wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:13 pm
Wasn't the scalloped floor a Mercedes invention? Weird that they've gone back to a regular floor.

Doesn't seem like a huge update package to me, but that's in line with the noises coming from Mercedes themselves.
Barge boards and floor are two of the most powerful components on the car. The third in the “big 3” being the diffuser, which we haven’t seen yet.

rickybobbyf1
rickybobbyf1
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Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:22 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Marty_Y wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:10 pm
It'll be interesting to see what rear wing they run this weekend.
Yes! And if they updated the diffuser area too…

Vaexa
Vaexa
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Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:58 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:17 pm
Vaexa wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:13 pm
Wasn't the scalloped floor a Mercedes invention? Weird that they've gone back to a regular floor.

Doesn't seem like a huge update package to me, but that's in line with the noises coming from Mercedes themselves.
Barge boards and floor are two of the most powerful components on the car. The third in the “big 3” being the diffuser, which we haven’t seen yet.
I'm well aware, and I can't say I understand the scalloped floor concept well enough to judge the effects of its removal. It just strikes me as being strange.

From where I'm sitting the bargeboard revisions seem fairly minor, apart from the upper "wing", but I'm also not sure what to make of those.

mkay
mkay
14
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:17 pm
Vaexa wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:13 pm
Wasn't the scalloped floor a Mercedes invention? Weird that they've gone back to a regular floor.

Doesn't seem like a huge update package to me, but that's in line with the noises coming from Mercedes themselves.
Barge boards and floor are two of the most powerful components on the car. The third in the “big 3” being the diffuser, which we haven’t seen yet.
Front wing?

Which Gazzetta (IIRC?) had reported would also be part of the upgrade package for this weekend.