A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
By perfecting the tight internal packaging concept merc is free to use whatever side pod shape size that falls in between these 2 extremes and beyond. Should their nosidepod side pods fail to deliver they have the flexibility to go wide undercut physically rather easily. On the other hand, if the former prove to work well, no other non merc team have easy means to copy
This.
Doing what they did gives them a lot of options when the sidepods are essentially just body work.
Exactly. people are missing he point about the engineering behind the hood; its flexible. They have set up a very good foundation for aero concepts in the years to come.
The team is still working on setup. Russell is improving in sector 2.
They better be! It’s only day 4 of on track testing.
Hell, you could be on a track 1000x and still be working on set up.
Lots of time to be gained in the Slow speed sections. I'm sure that's why you've seen both George and Lewis pushing and locking the front left and turn 10.
The team is still working on setup. Russell is improving in sector 2.
They better be! It’s only day 4 of on track testing.
Hell, you could be on a track 1000x and still be working on set up.
The team will have done a lot of set up options in the sim. They'll bring the most promising to the test and then try them on track. Some will be better than others. It'll also allow the sim model to be refined.
They're still at the "if we do this, what will happen?" stage. It's why it's called testing after all.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
The team is still working on setup. Russell is improving in sector 2.
They better be! It’s only day 4 of on track testing.
Hell, you could be on a track 1000x and still be working on set up.
Lots of time to be gained in the Slow speed sections. I'm sure that's why you've seen both George and Lewis pushing and locking the front left and turn 10.
Yes and no. There is time to be gained everywhere.
Slow speed takes more time but you cover less distance in that time. High speed an improvement of .1” is going to result in more track covered in that time.
It all matters though as the slowest corners in the Tilke era occur just before the largest straights. So you need to be able to get through them to get the run.
The team is still working on setup. Russell is improving in sector 2.
They better be! It’s only day 4 of on track testing.
Hell, you could be on a track 1000x and still be working on set up.
The team will have done a lot of set up options in the sim. They'll bring the most promising to the test and then try them on track. Some will be better than others. It'll also allow the sim model to be refined.
They're still at the "if we do this, what will happen?" stage. It's why it's called testing after all.
Having been involved in real life chassis development, I am well aware. But the sim is just that, an approximation.
Even them, it never stops, because instead of chasing tenths you are chasing hundredths.
People also tend to forget that what essentially Mercedes brought is a brand new car. Chances are half the stuff that they learned in Barcelona does not apply to this version Off the car.. They are essentially starting from almost square one.. At least they're doing it now versus red bull, Who knows on Friday or Saturday the upgrades that red bull have may not work And they'll be the ones in trouble
Listen Guys. Dont just post Pictures of 30 Year old Cars with ZERO CONTEXT. If you think it has a TECHNICAL RELEVANCY TO THE W13 state it and we can see what comes out of it. But dont just Post a Picture of a Car with small Sidepods.
I thought the 1991 lambo was more relevant than an f-117 and the photos much less invasive.
Without context they're both Off Topic. It's that simple.
Well FIA/F1 isn't that simple though. They can say whatever they want but once a protest is sent then the decision is taken. But yeah I agree. But still I don't even understand what would could be illegal about it? Don't think there is any worries as Mercedes at all.
More that the spirit of the rules wants to prevent too much dirty air pushed behind and bargeboards were limited as they were a prime culprit. So to see bargeboards v2 raises potential questions about how much is too much.
Is there a too much? Have Mercedes already asked the FIA about where the line might be drawn? Do the FIA even care?
I think they will see the racing first and decide later if clarification is required!
'We did not anticipate the Mercedes concept'
Andrew Benson
BBC Sport’s chief F1 writer
So, this Red Bull/Mercedes thing has all got a bit tasty this morning, hasn’t it? But let’s step back a bit. Ross Brawn, F1’s managing director, has told F1 TV: “There are some very extreme interpretations of the regulations which could lead to a lot of debate. We did not anticipate the Mercedes concept.” Brawn has been at pains to say in the lead-up to the new regulations being introduced this season that F1 is trying to stay on top of all the designs and ensure they do not take the cars too far away from the intent of the regulations.
Brawn has also been making a lot of the new voting structure around rule changes, which no longer out-laws changes within a season. So it’s possible that all this is the precursor of an attempt to get the Mercedes out-lawed. Red Bull have the option to protest at a race, which would leave it up to the stewards to decide.
But if Brawn feels the car is a step too far, he could try to use the rules to torpedo it. Changes within a season need eight out of the 10 teams to agree as well as F1 and the FIA for them to be introduced. This is likely to run for a while.
BBC Sport understands the FIA has looked at the Mercedes design and given it the all-clear. And it seems the FIA has also run it in CFD analysis and found it did not worsen the car’s wake - which is Brawn’s key concern with the regs, in terms of disrupting airflow for following cars.
Brilliant, same output to what I say, different method. See what is the impact and decide if it is legal based on that.
But my point from the first test and my point today is not about what is on the car now, but about where the line is drawn if a development in that area goes to far and at some point I'm sure it will.
But that's a really good quote, thanks. This also suggests to me that Brawn's and the FIAs approach around the spirit of the regs does seem to be aligned to a good degree, which is nice to see and to be honest, much needed for this kind of a situation not to become a free for all.
Last edited by mwillems on 10 Mar 2022, 17:00, edited 1 time in total.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Listen Guys. Dont just post Pictures of 30 Year old Cars with ZERO CONTEXT. If you think it has a TECHNICAL RELEVANCY TO THE W13 state it and we can see what comes out of it. But dont just Post a Picture of a Car with small Sidepods.
Will fighter jet be ok?
If it helps you explain something you think is going on with the W13 then, by all means, post a Picture of a London Cab. Just make sure your Aaalysis is about the W13, not the Cab.
They better be! It’s only day 4 of on track testing.
Hell, you could be on a track 1000x and still be working on set up.
The team will have done a lot of set up options in the sim. They'll bring the most promising to the test and then try them on track. Some will be better than others. It'll also allow the sim model to be refined.
They're still at the "if we do this, what will happen?" stage. It's why it's called testing after all.
Having been involved in real life chassis development, I am well aware. But the sim is just that, an approximation.
Even them, it never stops, because instead of chasing tenths you are chasing hundredths.
Yes, that's why the solutions found on the simulator will be being checked on track. Anyone that takes a sim answer as gospel deserves to fail.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
The front wing was flexing a lot from the on board camera, even at low speed. Wonder if we are in for a protesting war next week. All those winglets are fishy too.
At the end of the 1st straight Sainz hit 316km/h where Russel hit just 288km/h, so Mercedes is clearly sandbagging.
I wouldn't say. I'm watching Russel drive, it is very lethargic and quite bumpy on the straights! To me it looks like they cannot push.
When I was watching earlier Russel wasn't using DRS at all, you could take that either way, but I'd imagine they are doing all kinds of tests and trying to hide pace if they know they have loads.
