Decoupled suspension

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Zynerji
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Decoupled suspension

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Not sure if this is the place, but this was eye opening for me!


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Stu
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:36 pm
Not sure if this is the place, but this was eye opening for me!

That is a very interesting video!
I had a linked hydraulic system on my drawing board for ages (way too many years ago!), that was part of very outlandish car design/concept. I was attempting to creat something that would work without electronic control to effectively decouple (although I didn’t know that it called decoupling at the time!) all four suspension modes. I never did fully solve it…
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

NL_Fer
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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I believe the current rules doesn’t allow for an actual interconnect (FRIC) between front and rear. But the designers have to simulate the same effect, without an interconnect and only the 3 springs/dampers on each axle.

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Stu
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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NL_Fer wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:14 am
I believe the current rules doesn’t allow for an actual interconnect (FRIC) between front and rear. But the designers have to simulate the same effect, without an interconnect and only the 3 springs/dampers on each axle.
This is true, no interconnection between each axle.
For this year, any connection across an axle must be by mechanical means only.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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henry
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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IIRC, Malcolm Smith, Cambridge Professor, made a model of a fully decoupled suspension, I think the connections were hydraulic. I had a paper describing it, but I’ve lost it.

The inerter is a more famous contribution of his to suspension technology.

Edit: the paper is titled “ Interconnected vehicle suspension”, MC Smith GW Walker , 2005. I can’t find an online copy but it might still be available somewhere.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Greg Locock
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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One of the best lecturers I had. The Kinetic suspension allows for fully hydraulic interconnect and was used in a UWA FSAE car, and various Toyotas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_D ... ion_System

There's a valve block in the interconnects which can be as complex or simple as you like.

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Stu
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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henry wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:30 am
IIRC, Malcolm Smith, Cambridge Professor, made a model of a fully decoupled suspension, I think the connections were hydraulic. I had a paper describing it, but I’ve lost it.

The inerter is a more famous contribution of his to suspension technology.

Edit: the paper is titled “ Interconnected vehicle suspension”, MC Smith GW Walker , 2005. I can’t find an online copy but it might still be available somewhere.
Thanks Henry, I’ll try to search for it. 👍

Is this it? ⬇️
http://www-control.eng.cam.ac.uk/Homepa ... l_1014.pdf
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Greg Locock
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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henry
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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Yes, that’s it. I guess all search engines are not created equal, or maybe search operators. I only found references, not the paper itself.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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Tim.Wright
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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I did some analysis on the characteristics of an interconnected suspension here a few years ago. My version had no warp stiffness.
viewtopic.php?p=574169#p574169
Not the engineer at Force India

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Stu
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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Tim.Wright wrote:
Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:17 pm
I did some analysis on the characteristics of an interconnected suspension here a few years ago. My version had no warp stiffness.
viewtopic.php?p=574169#p574169
That is excellent, thank you for sharing it again!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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Honda Porsche fan
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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Does the decoupled suspension have anything to do with the the Benetton Renault Tuned Mass damper of 2005 that was banned ?

If not, could you add a tuned mass damper to a decoupled hydraulic suspension or FRIC with added benefits or will it be redundant or cause negative issues?

The tuned mass damper was tuned to counteract yaw motion.

"How Renault F1 won a World championship by creating the tuned mass damper."...
https://mooregoodink.com/how-renault-f1 ... ss-damper/

johnny comelately
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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Stu wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:57 am
Zynerji wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:36 pm
Not sure if this is the place, but this was eye opening for me!

That is a very interesting video!
I had a linked hydraulic system on my drawing board for ages (way too many years ago!), that was part of very outlandish car design/concept. I was attempting to creat something that would work without electronic control to effectively decouple (although I didn’t know that it called decoupling at the time!) all four suspension modes. I never did fully solve it…
Jules Bianchi's uncle designed a system that separated bump and rebound both in springs and damping, he approached Peugeot and others but it didnt break into the mainstream.

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henry
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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Honda Porsche fan wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:17 pm
Does the decoupled suspension have anything to do with the the Benetton Renault Tuned Mass damper of 2005 that was banned ?

If not, could you add a tuned mass damper to a decoupled hydraulic suspension or FRIC with added benefits or will it be redundant or cause negative issues?

The tuned mass damper was tuned to counteract yaw motion.

"How Renault F1 won a World championship by creating the tuned mass damper."...
https://mooregoodink.com/how-renault-f1 ... ss-damper/
The mass damper on the car handled heave and pitch.

The yaw that is referred to is on the wind tunnel model.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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Honda Porsche fan
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Re: Decoupled suspension

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henry wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:04 am
Honda Porsche fan wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:17 pm
Does the decoupled suspension have anything to do with the the Benetton Renault Tuned Mass damper of 2005 that was banned ?

If not, could you add a tuned mass damper to a decoupled hydraulic suspension or FRIC with added benefits or will it be redundant or cause negative issues?

The tuned mass damper was tuned to counteract yaw motion.

"How Renault F1 won a World championship by creating the tuned mass damper."...
https://mooregoodink.com/how-renault-f1 ... ss-damper/
The mass damper on the car handled heave and pitch.

The yaw that is referred to is on the wind tunnel model.
Does a fully decoupled hydraulic suspension with FRIC remove the need for a mass damper? Or could a mass damper be added with additional benefits?