Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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Likes_race_cars
Likes_race_cars
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:45 am

Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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Hi folks new guy here,
I was looking for information regarding how roll specifically affects aerodynamics in f1 (or any other race car). Also i would love to see actual graph how roll changes aero if anyone has data (ofc real data will be impossible just curious if anyone has tried to find it themselves in CFD).

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jjn9128
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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You will struggle to find that data. You'll have enough trouble finding pitch aero-maps.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

Likes_race_cars
Likes_race_cars
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:45 am

Re: Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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Yeah data is hard to come by for sure. Don't necessarily have to be about F1, any car with decet underbody aero.
explanation on the subject is just as welcome, tough to find that as well.

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:29 am

Re: Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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Surely someone has published a paper on their Formula SAE/Student project with this kind of info in it. Whether you can trust it or not is another question.
Not the engineer at Force India

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:02 am

Re: Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:06 pm
You will struggle to find that data. You'll have enough trouble finding pitch aero-maps.
This.

And then good luck finding any that shows what the aero is doing as the car bounces down the track.

Greg Locock
Greg Locock
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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I do have it for production cars, but can't share it. The reason we look at it is crosswind sensitivity. The crosswind rolls the car as well as yawing it, so you get a little bit of roll steer. It wouldn't break my heart if we didn't have it, it is small beer.

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:02 am

Re: Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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Greg Locock wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:20 pm
I do have it for production cars, but can't share it. The reason we look at it is crosswind sensitivity. The crosswind rolls the car as well as yawing it, so you get a little bit of roll steer. It wouldn't break my heart if we didn't have it, it is small beer.
Indy and NASCAR focus on this a lot because those cars are often times sideways or backwards at over 180mph.

I do worry that F1 doesn’t give this much consideration, that I am aware of. Curious what these new cars will do when going backwards.

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jjn9128
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:31 pm
Greg Locock wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:20 pm
I do have it for production cars, but can't share it. The reason we look at it is crosswind sensitivity. The crosswind rolls the car as well as yawing it, so you get a little bit of roll steer. It wouldn't break my heart if we didn't have it, it is small beer.
Indy and NASCAR focus on this a lot because those cars are often times sideways or backwards at over 180mph.

I do worry that F1 doesn’t give this much consideration, that I am aware of. Curious what these new cars will do when going backwards.
We're off topic but I hope F1 looked at some reverse and sideways liftoff tests with their developments for the rules. Not having that would have been a huge oversight. I've got some pics of formula Nippon reverse tests when it was the swift chassis.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

Domi
Domi
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Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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Old GP2 cars had like 5ish % downforce loss at 1 deg of roll and a very minor balance swift to the front.

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:55 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Aerodynamic roll sensitivity.

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in this chronoGP video which you can set to english in the CC button and auto settings, they allude to this with the front suspension geometry that has roll considerations that optimise across the front end for turn in, part of which keeps the aero more unaffected.