EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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Sieper
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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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In regard to nuclear power. It might seem controllable when all is well, but it can also be anything but.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

dialtone
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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:18 pm
In regard to nuclear power. It might seem controllable when all is well, but it can also be anything but.
Technically there are many reactor designs that are passively safe, as in designed that there's no way, physically and chemically, go out of control. For example Sodium-cooled fast reactors.

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Sieper
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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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That means that if anything goes wrong, say a bomb exploding near it, making it loose it’s coolant, or simply power (and back up) power outage) the reaction process will stop anyway? It can’t go in a meltdown?
Controversy does not have a short memory.

dialtone
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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:07 pm
That means that if anything goes wrong, say a bomb exploding near it, making it loose it’s coolant, or simply power (and back up) power outage) the reaction process will stop anyway? It can’t go in a meltdown?
Yeah, technically yes. We do need to understand that meltdowns are caused by many reasons. Current reactors like those in Fukushima, when they are scrammed (shut down) like they did in Fukushima, still generate 10% of heat, which in a 1GW reactor is 100MW, and it will continue that way for a few hours. So those 100MW need to be cooled off somehow or they will melt the reactor. Incidentally this is what happened in Fukushima, they had the diesel generators for the water pumps to cool the reactor low in the power plant and got flooded and broke.

One issue in PWR reactors is that water under pressure still becomes steam with enough heat and clogs the pipes (this happened in Three Mile Island), gen III+ and gen IV reactors tend to have cooling loops that don't involve water, like lead or sodium.

Anyway I'm not an expert in the field, but I think Gen III+ and Gen IV reactors are designed to improve passive safety, Gen IV are still ways out, but Gen III+ are being built in asia AFAIK.

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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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Latest estimate by CSIRO is that a 100% wind solar storage (unidentified) zero net grid for Australia will cost about $500 billion, and estimates for SMR nuclear plants is about 1/3 to 1/2 of that. Much of the savings with SMRs is that you just plonk them down where your coal generator used to be and use the existing powerlines. $500B is doable, but they rely heavily on 'learning' annual discounts for all the renewable tech, which is optimistic if they are using lithium batteries, which will increase in price for the rest of the decade (at least).

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Sieper
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Thank you for the explanation dialtone, good to know. I am not against nuclear just the fear of it going wrong always lingers, or as we now see, the irresponsible behavior around these plants in unexpected times. The waste doesn’t make it green too. I am still hoping to see fusion as a source of power in my lifetime but that is a whole other point.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:30 pm
Thank you for the explanation dialtone, good to know. I am not against nuclear just the fear of it going wrong always lingers, or as we now see, the irresponsible behavior around these plants in unexpected times. The waste doesn’t make it green too. I am still hoping to see fusion as a source of power in my lifetime but that is a whole other point.
yeah I know what you mean, I have the same fears

johnny comelately
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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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https://www.dw.com/en/european-parliame ... a-62377411

The European Parliament on Wednesday voted in favor of a proposal regarding labeling natural gas and nuclear power plants as climate-friendly investments.

The European Commission released the proposal, formally called the EU taxonomy, in December as a list of economic activities that investors can label and market as green in the EU.

A motion to block the proposal received 278 votes in favor and 328 against, while 33 lawmakers abstained.

Unless 20 of the EU's 27 member states oppose the proposal, it will be passed into law.
Accusations of 'greenwashing' fossil fuels

The proposal was initially met with resistance among some EU member states, with one camp led by France strongly backing the green label for natural gas and nuclear energy. Meanwhile, Germany — which has been phasing out its nuclear power plants — had opposed the plan.

Some environmental groups and EU lawmakers have also criticized the plan for "greenwashing" fossil fuel and nuclear energy.

Austria and Luxembourg have even pledged to sue the EU if the plan becomes law.

Still, the proposal had the backing of the majority of the center-right European People's Party, the European Parliament's biggest lawmaker group.

Lawmakers of the centrist Renew Europe group were largely in favor of the proposal, while the Greens and Social Democrats mostly opposed it.

A total of 353 lawmakers — a majority of the Parliament's 705 lawmakers — are needed to reject a plan for it to fail.

Spoutnik
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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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chrisc90 wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:03 pm
Just need them to wake up about these electric cars being 'green' now.
Can you developp please ?

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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:07 pm
That means that if anything goes wrong, say a bomb exploding near it, making it loose it’s coolant, or simply power (and back up) power outage) the reaction process will stop anyway? It can’t go in a meltdown?
In fact, the buildings of nuclear power plants are designed for huge loads both from the inside and outside. You are unlikely to be able to find weapons that can cause fatal damage to the building of the power unit, except perhaps a direct hit from a nuclear warhead, or someone will bomb the building with FAB-5000 bombs for a week.

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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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proteus wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:17 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:52 pm
McL-H wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:43 pm
It is very green energy and we should have switched to nuclear a long time ago.
+1
It's greener then a green peace :lol:

It's our only option. Hydro is limited, wind and sun are basically a scam. But this is BIG surprise.
Isnt there only for about 100 years of nuclear material for use in plants? So it is just a stop gap measure, but not much more.
I think there is plenty of thorium. Such a shame you can't make a bomb out of it...

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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:52 pm
McL-H wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:43 pm
It is very green energy and we should have switched to nuclear a long time ago.
wind and sun are basically a scam
Sorry to say this, but how ignorant!! #-o

I can tell you about many people I know who has reduced their demand to a half with just 10 PV panels.

That means reducing emissions drastically, half of the energy used is PV so emissions free, and the second half is almost a half green energy from solar, wind and hydro (at least here in Spain, but the average is similar in Europe), so basically 75% of the energy used by this people is emissions free thanks to PV panels

If everybody would be doing this, most polltion problems would be solved, but people do prefer to keep believing biased reports stating electricity pollute similar to petrol. We know petrol companies have been manipulating us all for decades, preventing EVs to reach the market, but know people who think they´re smarter than anyone think those biased reports from petrol companies are real, and EVs and green energy are a scam... :wtf:

Einstein was spot on when he said he only know two infinity things, space and human stupidity #-o :cry: ](*,) :-#

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Andres125sx
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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:37 pm
Isn't "green" really just shorthand for "low CO2 producing" rather than "able to create a utopian world where everyone is vegan and the bunnies are fluffy".

Nuke is "green" in terms of its in-use pollution generation, especially CO2. Not so "green" during the build phase or during decommissioning, of course. It's also jolly safe in terms of lives lost.
Spot on!

Anycase I must say polliticians are so disgusting this world is like a parody. They´ve been ignoring the problem for decades, and now, sudenly, they change so drastically they´re clearly overreacting at all respects.

2030 limit to sell ICEs... labelling nuclear as green... Looks like they´re trying to compensate decades of inaction with absurd overreaction


Nuclear is emissions free, wich is the main goal now as we´re simply ruining the planet with emissions. But nuclear waste is there, and that cannot be considered green by anyone with a working brain.

But it´s needed and will be needed for decades, at least while we´re not reducing our energy demand to less than a half, what will never happen, so we will need it. But green... no it´s not what we all understand by green.

sosic2121
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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:54 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:52 pm
McL-H wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:43 pm
It is very green energy and we should have switched to nuclear a long time ago.
wind and sun are basically a scam
Sorry to say this, but how ignorant!! #-o

I can tell you about many people I know who has reduced their demand to a half with just 10 PV panels.

That means reducing emissions drastically, half of the energy used is PV so emissions free, and the second half is almost a half green energy from solar, wind and hydro (at least here in Spain, but the average is similar in Europe), so basically 75% of the energy used by this people is emissions free thanks to PV panels

If everybody would be doing this, most polltion problems would be solved, but people do prefer to keep believing biased reports stating electricity pollute similar to petrol. We know petrol companies have been manipulating us all for decades, preventing EVs to reach the market, but know people who think they´re smarter than anyone think those biased reports from petrol companies are real, and EVs and green energy are a scam... :wtf:

Einstein was spot on when he said he only know two infinity things, space and human stupidity #-o :cry: ](*,) :-#
I think you need to crunch some numbers before you can talk about stupidity.

I am not against wind or solar, but to think that they can replace coal and nuclear, and to do that in a "green" way is funny.

Do you consider producing and disposing of for example tesla's model S 100kwh battery
as something "green"? And tell me how do you plan to fill that thing with solar panels?

Since Germany started turning down their nuclear plants it's co2 production increased :roll:

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Andres125sx
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Re: EU now says Nuclear is "green".

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sosic2121 wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:13 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:54 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:52 pm

wind and sun are basically a scam
Sorry to say this, but how ignorant!! #-o

I can tell you about many people I know who has reduced their demand to a half with just 10 PV panels.

That means reducing emissions drastically, half of the energy used is PV so emissions free, and the second half is almost a half green energy from solar, wind and hydro (at least here in Spain, but the average is similar in Europe), so basically 75% of the energy used by this people is emissions free thanks to PV panels

If everybody would be doing this, most polltion problems would be solved, but people do prefer to keep believing biased reports stating electricity pollute similar to petrol. We know petrol companies have been manipulating us all for decades, preventing EVs to reach the market, but know people who think they´re smarter than anyone think those biased reports from petrol companies are real, and EVs and green energy are a scam... :wtf:

Einstein was spot on when he said he only know two infinity things, space and human stupidity #-o :cry: ](*,) :-#
I think you need to crunch some numbers before you can talk about stupidity.

I am not against wind or solar, but to think that they can replace coal and nuclear, and to do that in a "green" way is funny.

Do you consider producing and disposing of for example tesla's model S 100kwh battery
as something "green"? And tell me how do you plan to fill that thing with solar panels?

Since Germany started turning down their nuclear plants it's co2 production increased :roll:
Did you read my post? Because it´s bassed on real numbers from real people whose grid demand has been reduced to a half, thus reducing emissions drastically

Funny to read you´re not against wind or solar after stating they´re a scam :shock: