Brake Dust Problem 2022

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jagunx51
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Brake Dust Problem 2022

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Why brake dust has become a bigger F1 driver problem in 2022

:arrow: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why-brake-dust-has-become-a-bigger-f1-driver-problem-in-2022/10337917/#gal-10337917-m0-ferrari-sf21-front-brake-duct-comparison
The FIA plans talks with teams over the next few weeks to evaluate whether or not action needs to be taken on addressing Formula 1 driver concerns about brake dust.

The worries from drivers about the health implication of breathing in carbon dust during the course of a race weekend emerged after the Austrian Grand Prix when Sebastian Vettel in particular emerged from his car with a face spattered with black carbon.

Vettel said the long-running issue had worsened this season owing to the new brake duct layout, with drivers now not only subjected to the brake dust generated by a car they’re following, but also dust created by their own car.

"The design of the brake ducts this year, with the front axle, it is blowing all the brake dust into our faces and it is not good," he said.

The regulations were changed for 2022 in regards to the design of the brake duct, in order to limit the potential for teams to generate aerodynamic outwash by blowing air out through the wheels.

As a consequence, the introduction of a mandatory rear facing duct outlet was aimed at keeping airflow centralised. However, this now appears to have triggered consequences on the carbon brake dust issue.
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Big Tea
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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If the dust is that bad, is the problem limited to only the drivers?
I understand them not wanting to be plastered with it, but modifying the ventilation of it is only relocating it, and there are many people around the tracks, from track workers to spectators. Does the material need to be considered?
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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Concentration of a substance is important. Brake dust from the cars will be immensely diluted by the time it gets near to the marshals and even more by the time it gets to the crowd. Keep in mind that people are exposed to micro particles from road cars all the time, but not at the concentrations the drivers are exposed to. It's the concentration that is worrying.
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jagunx51
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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jagunx51
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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Tallano’s TAMIC® system for reducing brake emissions
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Zynerji
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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Best solution is a front MGU-K to lessen the need to use the pads hard.

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ispano6
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:27 pm
Concentration of a substance is important. Brake dust from the cars will be immensely diluted by the time it gets near to the marshals and even more by the time it gets to the crowd. Keep in mind that people are exposed to micro particles from road cars all the time, but not at the concentrations the drivers are exposed to. It's the concentration that is worrying.
Infant mortality, pre-term death, and miscarriages are linked to emissions and vehicle pollution for mothers living near or next to roadways. Even small concentrations are harmful if they are embedded in lung tissue or the bloodstream.
The black plumes of brake dust have always been a major turn-off of the sport and needs to be addressed. A material and design that doesn't shed anything needs to be introduced.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:12 am
A material and design that doesn't shed anything needs to be introduced.
That is likely going to be impossible to achieve. All brakes will give out something because both the disc and pad will wear with use. You would have to introduce a filter in the brake shroud to catch as much of the dust as possible and even that won't be 100% effective. And it would probably lead to brake fires and failures.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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vorticism
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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Simple, lighter fix would be to add an air filter inside the helmet ventilation. Done. Fan assisted air paths could also be considered as a spec system integrated with the helmet; adding a little more weight. The collection system mentioned in the OP video is likely impractical at the required flow rates and temperatures seen on an F1 car -- orders of magnitude beyond a city hatchback trundling a few kilometers. Roughly 100 cu cm of fine carbon dispersed per race within several cubic kilometers of atmosphere is not an issue for trackside attendants. Fine carbon is not the worst thing to breath incidentally; the body can absorb it. Silicon and cellulose are worse. Even simpler solution: The balaclava is over their mouths already, providing some filtration; this could be extended over their nose through tailoring. As two years of science trusting has taught us, a wide variety of fabrics from balaclava material to scarves to N95 micro meshes form a perfect particulate barrier as established by WHO, CDC and other trusted old boy networks.

piast9
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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vorticism wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:34 pm
Simple, lighter fix would be to add an air filter inside the helmet ventilation. Done.
I strongly doubt it. Have you tried doing any kind of effort with a face mask? Any filter able to filter out such small particles would have to be quite dense and dense filters restrict the flow.

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vorticism
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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piast9 wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:36 pm
vorticism wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:34 pm
Simple, lighter fix would be to add an air filter inside the helmet ventilation. Done.
I strongly doubt it. Have you tried doing any kind of effort with a face mask? Any filter able to filter out such small particles would have to be quite dense and dense filters restrict the flow.
Mostly a matter of airflow vs filter surface area. Exhalation can be unfiltered. Positive pressure is available on the front of the helmet and a small fan might potentially be incorporated although passive ducts should be sufficient.

Current helmet duct varieties below, backward facing. If you didn't want a hose involved the duct could be forward facing. Which open seater helmets tend to have in some form already.

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DiogoBrand
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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Wouldn't it be possible to just add a filter to the outlet of the brake ducts? Definitely simpler than to add a turbine and ducting to suck the dust out of the pads.

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ispano6
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Re: Brake Dust Problem 2022

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:56 am
ispano6 wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:12 am
A material and design that doesn't shed anything needs to be introduced.
That is likely going to be impossible to achieve. All brakes will give out something because both the disc and pad will wear with use. You would have to introduce a filter in the brake shroud to catch as much of the dust as possible and even that won't be 100% effective. And it would probably lead to brake fires and failures.
That is if you stick with a disc/pad set up. You could design drum brakes that have collection cavities where the brake dust accumulates. The drum brake is enclosed and would not release plumes of brake dust clouds.

Using filter/snorkels for the driver helmet would only protect the drivers and not do anything toward reducing or eliminating the brake dust being released into the environment.