2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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MtthsMlw
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2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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Wouter
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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Thank you @MtthsMlw.👍

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/horn ... /10337893/
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Horner: F1's track limits will be "bigger issue" at Paul Ricard

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner is worried that Formula 1's track limits issue will only get bigger as it heads to Paul Ricard for the French Grand Prix next week.

At last week's Austrian Grand Prix a total of 43 track limits infringements were recorded during the race at the Red Bull Ring,
with further deleted lap times in qualifying.

"I think the problem is the nature of the circuit invites the drivers to use the track limits," Horner said. "And of course, there were many, many drivers that were infringing that over the weekend.

"I think my concern isn't so much here, I think Ricard will be a bigger issue in that there is a genuine time gain to be had. And obviously, you've got acres of tarmac there, so it's just inviting you to run offline."

Haas' Mick Schumacher echoed Horner's concerns ..........................................
The Power of Dreams!

BlueCheetah66
BlueCheetah66
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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I don't feel like track limits will actually be that big of an issue. The only corners I can really think of that will be an issue is the exit of turn 6 and maybe the exit of the first chicane. Apart from that the exit kerbs are pretty bumpy

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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BlueCheetah66 wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:25 pm
I don't feel like track limits will actually be that big of an issue. The only corners I can really think of that will be an issue is the exit of turn 6 and maybe the exit of the first chicane. Apart from that the exit kerbs are pretty bumpy
It feels like there's some early shots being fired with, for example, Horner putting in people's minds that it's difficult. Likewise Max's similar comments about track limits. Expect to see others doing likewise in order to put doubt in the minds of the stewards.

If we have another track limits fest like at Austria, I would expect meetings between the teams and FIA to rein things back in again.

[ to RBR / Max fans, this isn't an attack on them, it's an observation of the usual politics that plays about between the teams and the FIA / stewards. ]
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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Just_a_fan wrote:
BlueCheetah66 wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:25 pm
I don't feel like track limits will actually be that big of an issue. The only corners I can really think of that will be an issue is the exit of turn 6 and maybe the exit of the first chicane. Apart from that the exit kerbs are pretty bumpy
It feels like there's some early shots being fired with, for example, Horner putting in people's minds that it's difficult. Likewise Max's similar comments about track limits. Expect to see others doing likewise in order to put doubt in the minds of the stewards.

If we have another track limits fest like at Austria, I would expect meetings between the teams and FIA to rein things back in again.

[ to RBR / Max fans, this isn't an attack on them, it's an observation of the usual politics that plays about between the teams and the FIA / stewards. ]
I don’t understand the complaints on track limits, aside from how well they are policed. If they put gravel they would complain that a small mistake puts you out and it shouldn’t have gravel because it’s a blind corner anyway…

FIA should police better and ignore complaints about everything else.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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dialtone wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:24 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
BlueCheetah66 wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:25 pm
I don't feel like track limits will actually be that big of an issue. The only corners I can really think of that will be an issue is the exit of turn 6 and maybe the exit of the first chicane. Apart from that the exit kerbs are pretty bumpy
It feels like there's some early shots being fired with, for example, Horner putting in people's minds that it's difficult. Likewise Max's similar comments about track limits. Expect to see others doing likewise in order to put doubt in the minds of the stewards.

If we have another track limits fest like at Austria, I would expect meetings between the teams and FIA to rein things back in again.

[ to RBR / Max fans, this isn't an attack on them, it's an observation of the usual politics that plays about between the teams and the FIA / stewards. ]
I don’t understand the complaints on track limits, aside from how well they are policed. If they put gravel they would complain that a small mistake puts you out and it shouldn’t have gravel because it’s a blind corner anyway…

FIA should police better and ignore complaints about everything else.
Self balancing systems should always be used. And in this case, a close gravel trap would solve all issues.

BlueCheetah66
BlueCheetah66
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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dialtone wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:24 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
BlueCheetah66 wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:25 pm
I don't feel like track limits will actually be that big of an issue. The only corners I can really think of that will be an issue is the exit of turn 6 and maybe the exit of the first chicane. Apart from that the exit kerbs are pretty bumpy
It feels like there's some early shots being fired with, for example, Horner putting in people's minds that it's difficult. Likewise Max's similar comments about track limits. Expect to see others doing likewise in order to put doubt in the minds of the stewards.

If we have another track limits fest like at Austria, I would expect meetings between the teams and FIA to rein things back in again.

[ to RBR / Max fans, this isn't an attack on them, it's an observation of the usual politics that plays about between the teams and the FIA / stewards. ]
I don’t understand the complaints on track limits, aside from how well they are policed. If they put gravel they would complain that a small mistake puts you out and it shouldn’t have gravel because it’s a blind corner anyway…

FIA should police better and ignore complaints about everything else.
I think people are making track limits a big issue because of how many warnings you see. I think the FIA should not disclose warnings or laps deleted or whatever, to teams and to everyone else. If they have enough trust in their own systems to watch track limits then penalties should be given without warning after however many times they want to allow drivers. Everyone knows that they should be staying inside the white lines

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RZS10
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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There is no real 'system' and teams apparently have no trust in them being able to enforce anything properly as was evident in both F1 and F2.

This article points out how they were just eyeballing the decisions, i'll also quote my own post from the Austria race thread.

the tl:dr is that they just had people watch the onboards, only actively paid any attention to three corners and missed a few off tracks elsewhere but also counted some which probably weren't infractions (according to some F2 teams iirc).

RZS10 wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:43 pm
This race the officials seemingly decided to be almost draconian when it came to track limits, especially considering the last race, right?

The Track Limit section of the event notes said the following:
In accordance with the provisions of Article 33.3, the white lines define the track edges. During Qualifying, Sprint and the Race, each time a driver fails to negotiate with the exit of turn 10, will result in that lap time and the immediately following lap time being invalidated by the Stewards.
They used the broad "the white line is the track limit everywhere" definition, but then only explicitly mention T10, i guess because the next lap was also supposed to be invalidated, so that addition was needed.

But looking at the deleted lap charts for the race, the qualifying and the sprint it becomes evident that they only actively monitored T1, T9 and T10, even though drivers were just as likely to go wide on the exit of T3 (usually a time loss), the exit of T6 or entry of T7 (time gain) and the exit of T7 which is the same as cutting the apex at T8 (time gain).

The only corner that was also noted was Lando in T7 for going wide between T6 and T7 and hitting the gravel in quali but that was very obvious and shown live in the world feed - so impossible to miss.

So it is not at all surprising that they did not notice Perez cutting T8 during the Q2 session and that they ignored others going off track for example in T8 repeatedly.

So in the end they still managed to be sloppy and inconsistent despite the harsh and pedantic enforcement of track limits because they only did so for selected corners and ignored breaches of the provision in the race director's notes in all the others.
Max' pole lap from last year wouldn't count if checked from the onboard for going off at the exit of T2:
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Same for the apex of T3 (even though the rear wheels are probably still on).
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Other corners which could have many off tracks are T5 exit, T6 exit, T10 exit, maybe T11 exit, T12 exit ... potentially more.

If they could not do it properly on a short track with 7 corners where drivers could leave the track whilst only monitoring 3 it's not surprising that there's already a discussion about it.

kalinka
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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Just get back to basics (Mid-Ohio, Indy car ) :
Image

I don't think any track-limit policing is required here.

CRazyLemon
CRazyLemon
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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RZS10 wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:02 pm

Max' pole lap from last year wouldn't count if checked from the onboard for going off at the exit of T2:
https://i.imgur.com/PECLV9H.png

Same for the apex of T3 (even though the rear wheels are probably still on).
https://i.imgur.com/jDQIm7h.png

Other corners which could have many off tracks are T5 exit, T6 exit, T10 exit, maybe T11 exit, T12 exit ... potentially more.

If they could not do it properly on a short track with 7 corners where drivers could leave the track whilst only monitoring 3 it's not surprising that there's already a discussion about it.
I think it will be a bit too bumpy out there for the new cars this year, so that should curb 😀 it in these corners this year.

Honestly I liked the jeopardy of the warnings. Sure no perfect system and if they are serious about policing this going forward I bet they can get one that works.

Just don't get the people who do the graphics currently to develop it. They're woefully unreliable and unpredictable.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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I still maintain that it would be far more straight forward to treat the white line as a wall and if any part of the tyre 'Clearly' touches it, it counts as a hit.
A small amount can be left on the table here with no effect on the race unless it is persistently abused when the driver should be put on notice of a penalty, but a big overlap would be obvious.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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kalinka wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:50 am
Just get back to basics (Mid-Ohio, Indy car ) :
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp ... exande.jpg

I don't think any track-limit policing is required here.
That looks Like multiple disasters waiting to happen at F1 cornering speeds though.

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ringo
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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The straights here seem suited to redbull. They should have it easy here.
For Sure!!

mkay
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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ringo wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:42 pm
The straights here seem suited to redbull. They should have it easy here.
Ferrari's new rear wing has flipped that narrative to some extent. Otherwise RB would have walked Austria.

RB should be strong(er) in Sector 2, but Ferrari will be very strong in Sectors 1 and 3.

LM10
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Re: 2022 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, July 22 - 24

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ringo wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:42 pm
The straights here seem suited to redbull. They should have it easy here.
Old story.