Safety Cars and Fairness

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discojesus100
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Safety Cars and Fairness

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Safety Cars and VSC's are an almost random variable and you can't completely negate it's effect on a race with rules this is just how racing works, however there could be ways to lessen their effect and often pot-luck nature. I don't have all the answers just some nuggets of thought, I often hear from some people saying when this happens it is a bit of a put off for any fans who are wanting to get into the sport and see the pot-luck nature as unfair and lacks competitive integrity, most F1 fans will argue over the course of a season that luck will even out.

-Introduce a Minimum Pit stop time under VSC's and Safety car
Either a standard fixed time or varying determined on circuit, teams can service their cars but have to spend x amount of time stationary. The benefit being that this would be a pretty straight forward rule to enforce, it could lead to more penalties, but will also disadvantage any teams wanting to double stack perhaps this can be negated if a driver is -5 seconds behind his teamate on the last sector before the safety car and that teamate pits the teamate behind can serve a regular untimed pitstop.

-Pitlane closure until Lead driver passes Sector 3
The whereabouts of cars on circuit is another random potluck variable that is inherent to Safety Cars, maybe if the pitlane is closed until the leader passes sector this will lessen that the benefit being this give more advantage to the driver who has already earned a lead.

Again this may have caveats with drivers on long stints vs cars that have just pitted but these are just thoughts and won't be flawless but with tweaks could help sure up the sports dice roll disadvantages when it comes to safety cars, Thoughts?

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chrisc90
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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Any team can benefit from a safety car and pitting. Been countless examples over the season this year. Russell has benefitted twice. Australia..

I do think, however, if the safety car is to go through the pitlane, no work should be done on the cars
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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I say safety cars add an element of uncertainty which F1 sorely needs. F1 is a sport but then it isn't!
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Shrieker
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:38 pm
I say safety cars add an element of uncertainty which F1 sorely needs. F1 is a sport but then it isn't!
It was just random luck in the past, but we saw last year it can turn into a manipulation tool in ignoble hands.

What needs to happen at this point is, closing the pit lane under sc/vsc periods. But then again, it can shaft people in some other ways too. Maybe what should happen is, resuming the race with pre existing gaps. As some other poster has pointed out, we more than have the tech to pull it off nowadays.

But formula wwe owners would never approve that of course.
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vorticism
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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Shrieker wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:48 pm
formula wwe owners would never approve that of course.
Makes me consider, why did they script the same character winning for six seasons? And not five, or seven. Or zero.

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Shrieker
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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Liberty bought in in 2017. Your trolling have been noted of late, but it's low quality sadly. Maybe make an effort at being factually correct before trying again?
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ispano6
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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Shrieker wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:10 am
Liberty bought in in 2017. Your trolling have been noted of late, but it's low quality sadly. Maybe make an effort at being factually correct before trying again?
Pitting under Safety car has always been a matter of gambling. Just because your favorite driver does not benefit does not mean it should change. And it's trolling to say that it was used to manipulate a result. Lewis lost last year because he was in the lead and Mercedes didn't gamble to give him new tyres over track position, just like today. The controversy of last year wasn't about pitting under safety car, it was the unlapping of cars and bringing in the safety car on the same lap. The issue you have is that SC restarts bunches up the field, which is what safety cars in all motorsport categories typically do. Sure it sucks that an earned delta gets eliminated, and red flag restarts also neutralizes a race. VSC seems the best middle ground but pitting under VSC also minimizes time delta since cars on track aren't at race pace. The gamble then is to stay out UNTIL there's a VSC or SC, which happens all the time. So again it comes down to risk vs reward.

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Shrieker
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I've been watching F1 for 25 years, this is not about Hamilton, not by a long shot.

For anyone carrying half a brain, it's the first problem that jumps at you. Even a 7 year old can tell the absurdity of it.

As for manipulation. Yes it's literally been demonstrated that it can, and does happen. In order to manipulate under the sc, first you need one #-o

As for the solution: In order for the time gaps to be restored, the cars and the systems literally have all the hardware needed. All that's left is a bit of software and the will to implement it. But when an sc/vsc has the possibility of spicing up a race (= views) why do that.
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Cs98
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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Ok, lol. Silly thread. When Hamilton is involved and gets the short end of the stick the sport always needs a revolution for some reason. Activist fans maybe.

SCs happen, VSCs happen. Putting your drivers on a one stop leaves you open to such scenarios, that needs to be taken into account when you are strategising.

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chrisc90
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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I do think there should be a limited for VSC rather than time delta. To easy to gain an advantage during the VSC
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DChemTech
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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Shrieker wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:20 am
I've been watching F1 for 25 years, this is not about Hamilton, not by a long shot.

For anyone carrying half a brain, it's the first problem that jumps at you. Even a 7 year old can tell the absurdity of it.

As for manipulation. Yes it's literally been demonstrated that it can, and does happen. In order to manipulate under the sc, first you need one #-o

As for the solution: In order for the time gaps to be restored, the cars and the systems literally have all the hardware needed. All that's left is a bit of software and the will to implement it. But when an sc/vsc has the possibility of spicing up a race (= views) why do that.
Mistakes do not equal malice. That a racing director made calls that diverged from the rules as written in the rulebook can be viewed as a mistake, and that has been demonstrated, does happen. That the racing director deliberately did so to favor Mercedes is a whole different level of allegation, and has by no means been demonstrated.
And yes, sometimes mistakes do unintentionally favor one team or driver. The way track limits were handled last year was also not fully in accordance with the letter of the rulebook, which in Bahrain (unintenionally) favored Lewis. But I by no means ascribe malice to that. You win some, you lose some.

Doesn't mean we can't review the SC rules, or have some thought experiments about how it can be more 'fair' in the sense that it plays less of an impact on the outcome of a race (and, whether that is something we want) - but as it is, it is 'fair' in the sense that everyone has equal odds of being impacted by a safety car (well, aside from the capacity of your strategists of properly handling the situation).

alexx_88
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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FOM, FIA and the teams know that the uncertainty added by SCs and rain is a needed element in an otherwise very technical and precise sport. They absolutely need the extra entertainment value that those bring, even though some fans might not like it.

If they'd actually want to make it fair, it would be extremely easy to do so. Just establish a minimum pit time under SC so that it eliminates the incentive of pitting unless you absolutely need to.

101FlyingDutchman
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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chrisc90 wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:38 am
I do think there should be a limited for VSC rather than time delta. To easy to gain an advantage during the VSC
I agree. I’ve seen it now multiple times where say a gap of 6sec gets reduced on the VSC restart to 2.5/3sec. Not sure exactly what you can do to eliminate the discrepancy but it seems to swing a bit much

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chrisc90
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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101FlyingDutchman wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:44 am
chrisc90 wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:38 am
I do think there should be a limited for VSC rather than time delta. To easy to gain an advantage during the VSC
I agree. I’ve seen it now multiple times where say a gap of 6sec gets reduced on the VSC restart to 2.5/3sec. Not sure exactly what you can do to eliminate the discrepancy but it seems to swing a bit much
Should have been limiter. Typo.

Easy to do, pit limiter button at a higher speed or I’m sure there would be technology the fia could send to the cars to limit speed.
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discojesus100
discojesus100
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Re: Safety Cars and Fairness

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I’ve suspected that may be the case, and I do actually see that point modern F1 is very squeaky clean precise so you have to throw in some variables look at the race we had at silverstone, but I don’t think we need to take away to randomness just reduce it make it so drivers are less likely to get majorly screwed over just disadvantaged.