Vehicle Trim for propoising, controlled by aerodynamics, or hidden engine damper propoising system?

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yamahasho
yamahasho
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Vehicle Trim for propoising, controlled by aerodynamics, or hidden engine damper propoising system?

Post

I'm sure some of you have seen this (i'm trying to get a better understanding, please bare with me):

This is my understanding of boat trim:
Image

So implementing this on a car, you should get this:

Image

My theory is they're using an engine damper for engine angle, a freespinning flywheel inside the rear differential (hidden and reason why some car exceed minimum weight) and a gyroscope to keep the car level in all modes. And they're controlling the rpm (mostly likely lowering) when engine load is not proportionate to downforce, effectively right before propoising.

My theory is that the have implemented this in a way to control not only propoising, but hysteresis, tire wear, effect on tire load and anti-dive/anti-squat by controlling the pitch on braking, essentially an FRIC what one team has done.

Or maybe they haven't, maybe it's done with the aero. But how would you control pitch aerodynamically as the rear ring angles out and diffuser pressure region decreases?

Using iceskates to level the car?
Bleeding the diffuser to keep the car level?
Stalling the beam wing to stop its effectiveness on the diffuser?
t-tray plank movement in the z-axis of rotation?

Source showing propoising in action at minute 2:40:


I believe a cavitation plate could also work.
Image
But that's effectively another t-tray.
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.

CMSMJ1
CMSMJ1
Moderator
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:51 am
Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom

Re: Vehicle Trim for propoising, controlled by aerodynamics, or hidden engine damper propoising system?

Post

I've read what you posted a few times now.

The boat is propelled by the reaction of the prop to the water - the same fluid it is floating in and travelling through.

The car is propelled by the vecotred force of the tyre on the floor - which does not move.

How does changing any angle in the motor impact the traction or driving motion? Why would having a "loose" or flexible mounting for the motor do anything other than cause handling issues? Porpoising or not?

The car is not floating - it is hard fast to the floor.

Can you give it in Janet and John for me? I initially thought you were kidding me..but let's look at it? It makes no sense at all - but you feel it does, so have another go?


I would suggest you get a spoon and some fast flowing tap - then lightly hold the spoon so that it dangles into the free stream - only a bit...you will find that the flow attaches and detaches and can be made to be fairly "bouncy". That, in my humble view, is similar to the loss or underfloor downforce when the flow is choked and detaches during a bouncing/porpoising episode.

What do you reckon?
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

yamahasho
yamahasho
10
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Vehicle Trim for propoising, controlled by aerodynamics, or hidden engine damper propoising system?

Post

It’s just a big Segway. You just need a super fast computer to modulate it. I prefer doing a heavy flywheel myself.
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.

Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 am

Re: Vehicle Trim for propoising, controlled by aerodynamics, or hidden engine damper propoising system?

Post

Have you ever heard of hull speed and planing? And it's 'bear with me' not 'bare with me'. The last one is being naked. Hull speed of a boat is (mostly) dependent on wetted length; the greater the length the higher the hull speed. It is easily possible to tow a short boat under the water with a larger boat because of this. The stern of the towed vessel will sink deeper and deeper into the water the faster it is towed. Not sure how this phenomenon applies to race cars on an asphalt track.....

yamahasho
yamahasho
10
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Vehicle Trim for propoising, controlled by aerodynamics, or hidden engine damper propoising system?

Post

Rodak wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:44 am
Have you ever heard of hull speed and planing? And it's 'bear with me' not 'bare with me'. The last one is being naked. Hull speed of a boat is (mostly) dependent on wetted length; the greater the length the higher the hull speed. It is easily possible to tow a short boat under the water with a larger boat because of this. The stern of the towed vessel will sink deeper and deeper into the water the faster it is towed. Not sure how this phenomenon applies to race cars on an asphalt track.....
Thanks for your comments. It’s about trying new things, who knows if this will work but someone has probably tried it.
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.