Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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yamahasho
yamahasho
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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Hello, i'm sure some have seen this phenomena,

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You've seen most cars, BMW, Audi, Mercedes have their DSC, VSC systems where, during over-steering or fishtailing, the outside wheels would brake via computer controls, yaw control.. And for understeering, the inside would brake to make the car lean into the turn. Some higher end system cut throttle, spark, fuel etc.

This is an old idea but could be relevant today due to manufacturers having more data and experience. The next step would be to move the wheel hub (front or rear) just like the rudder system. The system is really designed to let the driver push the car until the system can kick in to keep it from fishtailing, it's better than having a set trackwidth not to mention the aero benefits. It's a balance between giving up a bit of trackwidth in the beginning in exchange for control later on. Excuse my crude sketch:

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They are many ways to make the hub movement you want but I've show the simplest one. The driver or computer aided mechanism, would move inside wheel in and outside wheel out if left side steps out (taking right turn and backend steps out). The system would counteract the fishtail. Also helps car from rolling, consider it an additional roll/sway bar.

Oversteer and Understeer.
It’s the same effect as 4ws (4-wheel steering), back tires turn toward right and car serves back to the right but just another way to go about it. Can also do it on the front for understeering situation but probably not needed but you create positive scrub which will induce understeer or scrub the front tires. You can call it Track Reduction System (TRS) or a combination of both to balance the car's yaw and roll.

The effective slip angle shouldn't change but this is something that needs to be looked at.

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Turning to aerodynamics, it's probably better to put the wheel position more inside to reduce the overall drag of the car during a straightline to control the tire turbulence, that is, in conjunction with the end winglets of the front and rear wing. You can get really strange with it, by moving the rear tires out, you could blow air going to the diffuser or the opposite, destroy the vacuum under the car to get some straightline speed (anti propoising), and then engage when you need the downforce or braking power.

But if you're allowed to adjust the wheel hub, why not take advantage of the in and out movement instead of just a fixed track width.
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johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:55 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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a yaw arrest method when on front wheel only
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Last edited by johnny comelately on Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 am

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

Post

Turning to aerodynamics, it's probably better to put the wheel position more inside to reduce the overall drag of the car during a straightline to control the tire turbulence, that is, in conjunction with the end winglets of the front and rear wing. You can get really strange with it, by moving the rear tires out, you could blow air going to the diffuser or the opposite, destroy the vacuum under the car to get some straightline speed (anti propoising), and then engage when you need the downforce or braking power.
Seems like a moveable aerodynamic device to me.

yamahasho
yamahasho
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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It could be, you can make it passive as a part of the suspension. There are a few ways one could do this.
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Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 am

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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If it moves, it moves.....

yamahasho
yamahasho
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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Rodak wrote:
Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:55 am
If it moves, it moves.....
Yes suspensions move, it would move like any suspension component.
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Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 am

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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Except its purpose would be to change the aerodynamic characteristics of components by moving them in and out or whatever. Is this so difficult?

Edited to add, from The-Race.com to clarify:
The so-called ‘moveable aerodynamic device’ ban is a shorthand for Article 3.15 of the technical regulations. In 2006, this stated under the heading of “aerodynamic influence” that “any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance… must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom) [and] must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car”.

yamahasho
yamahasho
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

Post

Rodak wrote:
Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:16 am
Except its purpose would be to change the aerodynamic characteristics of components by moving them in and out or whatever. Is this so difficult?

Edited to add, from The-Race.com to clarify:
The so-called ‘moveable aerodynamic device’ ban is a shorthand for Article 3.15 of the technical regulations. In 2006, this stated under the heading of “aerodynamic influence” that “any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance… must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom) [and] must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car”.
It’s not an aerodynamic part at all, I put it in this section because it could have aero benefits. Suspension movement influences aero performance and its movable but it’s not illegal.

To settle this I would say they could classify it as movable suspension.
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Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 am

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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To quote your original post:
The system is really designed to let the driver push the car until the system can kick in to keep it from fishtailing, it's better than having a set trackwidth not to mention the aero benefits.
Which aero benefits? Sounds like moving aero to me.

yamahasho
yamahasho
10
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

Post

It depends on how you want to use the system. Just reducing track width would reduce your frontal area. Unless you’re saying tires are aerodynamic devices then you could say it’s movable aero. But far as know tires are not a part of aero, they’re a part of suspension.
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Rodak
Rodak
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:02 am

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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But far as know tires are not a part of aero, they’re a part of suspension.
Do you recall the Renault mass damper issue from 2006? Might look it up....

yamahasho
yamahasho
10
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Tire Wake Reduction System (TRS), tire wake, Yaw Arrest System (YAS), anti-oversteer/understeer, and propoising?

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I am aware of it, in fact I wrote a thread on it, i've used the catch all rule myself, fia uses it all the time. Wheels, hubs, arm are a part of suspension not aero.
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