More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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ENGINE TUNER
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More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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Vettel once again tells the truth

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula ... ires-junk/

Are the pirelli apologists going to claim that the FIA told pirelli to make terrible rain tires?

Verstappen says he will give up his precious personal time so that pirelli can do more testing.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/verst ... /10382681/

Just_a_fan
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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If the FIA would let them test properly it would be a start. Not allowing proper testing of such a key component is mad.

Look at last year - Mercedes turned down the wet tyre test because of the budget cap. That's ridiculous.

So it's not all on Pirelli's doorstep.
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McL-H
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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For years the teams refused to help Pirelli develop them. Now they are complaining and pointing fingers.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/pirelli- ... wet-tyres/

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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:24 am
If the FIA would let them test properly it would be a start. Not allowing proper testing of such a key component is mad.

Look at last year - Mercedes turned down the wet tyre test because of the budget cap. That's ridiculous.

So it's not all on Pirelli's doorstep.
Every wet practice session is a wet testing session, they have had over a decade to improve their trash tires, but the full wets still barely move any more than the Bridgestone inters from 2010. Yes, there are now budget cap concerns, but pirelli has been sole supplier since 2011. If the testing is so limited why don't the drivers complain about the inters half as much?
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hollus
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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why don't the drivers complain about the inters half as much?
Well, isn't the problem that the inters do OK as inters but the wets are so horrible at being full wets that drivers are forced into the inters when it should be full wet conditions?
So they have inters and monsoon tires. In monsoon conditions there is a red flag and in wet conditions there is no fitting tire? At least that is how I read the complaints. No lap time overlap between wet and inter --> the wet never gets used because it is unraceable in the conditions where it is supposed to be raced and there is no race in the conditions in which it CAN be raced.
The inters did OK last weekend for 20-odd laps.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:41 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:24 am
If the FIA would let them test properly it would be a start. Not allowing proper testing of such a key component is mad.

Look at last year - Mercedes turned down the wet tyre test because of the budget cap. That's ridiculous.

So it's not all on Pirelli's doorstep.
Every wet practice session is a wet testing session, they have had over a decade to improve their trash tires, but the full wets still barely move any more than the Bridgestone inters from 2010. Yes, there are now budget cap concerns, but pirelli has been sole supplier since 2011. If the testing is so limited why don't the drivers complain about the inters half as much?
Wet practice sessions require the teams to go on track. If they decide to wait for drier conditions then Pirelli can't do anything, can they?

It needs the FIA to force teams to run in the wet.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:11 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:41 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:24 am
If the FIA would let them test properly it would be a start. Not allowing proper testing of such a key component is mad.

Look at last year - Mercedes turned down the wet tyre test because of the budget cap. That's ridiculous.

So it's not all on Pirelli's doorstep.
Every wet practice session is a wet testing session, they have had over a decade to improve their trash tires, but the full wets still barely move any more than the Bridgestone inters from 2010. Yes, there are now budget cap concerns, but pirelli has been sole supplier since 2011. If the testing is so limited why don't the drivers complain about the inters half as much?
Wet practice sessions require the teams to go on track. If they decide to wait for drier conditions then Pirelli can't do anything, can they?

It needs the FIA to force teams to run in the wet.
If the wet tires were better, and didn't aquaplane so easily, then the teams would go on track. Egg/chicken, obviously breakfast comes before dinner.

Just_a_fan
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:36 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:11 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:41 pm


Every wet practice session is a wet testing session, they have had over a decade to improve their trash tires, but the full wets still barely move any more than the Bridgestone inters from 2010. Yes, there are now budget cap concerns, but pirelli has been sole supplier since 2011. If the testing is so limited why don't the drivers complain about the inters half as much?
Wet practice sessions require the teams to go on track. If they decide to wait for drier conditions then Pirelli can't do anything, can they?

It needs the FIA to force teams to run in the wet.
If the wet tires were better, and didn't aquaplane so easily, then the teams would go on track. Egg/chicken, obviously breakfast comes before dinner.
Not that simple. Teams don't run in the wet unless they have to.

I'm amazed that people are comparing today with the Bridgestone days. Bridgestone had unlimited testing. Pirelli have a few days.

How anyone can compare the two is beyond me.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Zynerji
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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I'm surprised Pirelli continues to allow the pummeling to their reputation with the prescribed tyres for the F1 circus.

I would have left and let F1 tender another application so the tyre manufacturers (en masse) could have negotiated better by pushing back against the "show tyres" and returned us to racing tyres years ago.😔

Jolle
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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Nice suggestive title. I think you are not looking for the word truth but the word opinion. More people these days mix those ones up.

The rain tires are pretty shitty for several reasons, some in control of Pirelli but most of them because the rules and regulations.

The wets are also a product of Indy 2005, just like the hard tire. It’s a tire thee no matter what, cars can still go on track (the tires weren’t the problem in Spa, the spray was). Etc etc. It’s not by accident called the extreme.

So, there is a tire missing. A normal wet tire, between the extreme and inters. Now it’s like having super softs and ultra hard. Both have their use, but you really want that medium.

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hollus
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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Racefans has a piece out today suggesting a single wet tire compound. No inters, no extremes, just wet. Apparently Indy runs like that.
Would simplify logistics too.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

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Stu
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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How it used to be in the Goodyear days?


I seem to recall that the inters came along as part of the search for a competitive advantage during either the Bridgestone/Goodyear period or the Bridgestone/Michelin period.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Just_a_fan
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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hollus wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:26 am
Racefans has a piece out today suggesting a single wet tire compound. No inters, no extremes, just wet. Apparently Indy runs like that.
Would simplify logistics too.
It certainly gets around the complaint that Seb made in Japan. If there is just a wet tyre then everyone runs it until they can run slicks and you don't have people starting on intermediates hoping it'll be quicker and then ending up in the wall.

Should even be possible to make a wet tyre that can be run down to almost slick and still be quick in the way that Hamilton and others did in Turkey in 2020 with the intermediate.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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chrisc90
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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Its quite a interesting point with the cross over time differences between the wet and the inter.

Unfortunately, we didnt get to see much wet running in Japan as most pitted after the 1st or 2nd full lap which gives us limited lap data. However we can look at Verstappen and Vettel, with Seb being one of the first to make the switch.

The first lap on f1-tempo has seb as a 2:12.9 which is his pitting lap. Meanwhile Max was out longer and gives us the Red Bulls pace on the wet tyre. A 1:50.7 rising to a 1:52.8. Meanwhile whilst Max was on his 1min 52secs lap, vettel has recorded his first full lap which was a whole 4.4seconds faster than Max on wet tyres. Once Max was on the inters he was 3.5seconds a lap faster than seb, which is where we lose any comparison between tyre compounds.

I dont believe the track cleared up enough in those 2 laps where we have any tyre comparison, which just shows that the crossover period on the timing is far too large.

You could add more tread onto the tyre with some deeper grooves, so you have a medium between the inter and the Wet in terms of tread compound, but then you will sacrifice the switch between the inter and the slick tyre.
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JonoNic
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Re: More drivers telling the truth about pirelli (wet tires)

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Maybe F1 should have full wets that make tread blocks work like little diffusers... Haha!
Always find the gap then use it.