Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Base on previous analysis (viewtopic.php?t=30329), I continue my analysis and go deeper into flow structure, more iterations, here is the report.

[Besides, could anyone help me to connect to aerodynamicist or HR of F1 teams? I really hope to get a job there :D ]

1. Compliance
The pictures below show my CAD model’s compliance to regulation, including control volume/surface, fence direction, cross section shape, curvature, etc. I choose wheelbase 3500.
Image

2. CFD method:
RANS+ SST turbulence model
Steady Flow (Transient simulation is too time-consuming for the PC)
Mesh: unstructured mesh, 60 million cells for half model (the PC’s memory cannot hold full model 120 million cells). Split space around car to 5 parts: around front wing, around front wheel/suspension, around rear wing, middle body, far. Design of the car can be corresponding separated to 4 parts and optimized separately.
Image
Image
Image


3. Summary
I analyze flow data and optimize for maximize downforce, get ClA from 5.0~5.8, CdA 1.5~1.7 for different rake angles. Currently not consider reduce CdA, so drag may be too much, and the downforce and drag don’t include momentum change of internal flow.
Image

My iteration reaches 70+ versions, here I gather some part of notes when comparing versions and analyze flow structure:
Image

Image
Image

4. Key Flow Structure: 3 vortices, I call them “edge up vortex” “edge down vortex” “fence vortex”
Image
Image

5. Compare between Red Bull and Ferrari, focus on sidepod, engine cover, fence, floor edge:
Image
Image

6. Flexibility of floor edge
The floor edge can utilize its flexibility to bend downward at high speed, reducing the distance from the ground, significantly reducing the airflow involved in the bottom of the car, and significantly increasing the downforce. But in regulation of 2023, the flexibility is reduced.
The picture below shows the ground clearance when the McLaren is just out of pit and the ground clearance when running, and the similar difference of my simulation. With bended edge, downforce increases significantly, and the core is the bending reduce the in-wash under the floor edge. Red Bull’s floor edge may also utilize the flexibility.
Image

7. Rake angle
Image

8. Different diveplane outwash effect
Image

9. Some other detail
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

10. I've checked regulation of 2023, higher floor edge needs more design iterations. Higher floor make less lost for high rake cars, such as Redbull. So I predict Red Bull can defend the champion in 2023.
Image
Last edited by Latios on Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Andi76
Andi76
113
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:19 pm

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Latios wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:18 pm
Base on previous analysis (viewtopic.php?t=30329), I continue my analysis and go deeper into flow structure, more iterations, here is the report.
1. Compliance
The pictures below show my CAD model’s compliance to regulation, including control volume/surface, fence direction, cross section shape, curvature, etc. I choose wheelbase 3500.
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-3b3e425f8b ... _720w.webp

2. CFD method:
RANS+ SST turbulence model
Steady Flow (Transient simulation is too time-consuming for the PC)
Mesh: unstructured mesh, 60 million cells for half model (the PC’s memory cannot hold full model 120 million cells). Split space around car to 5 parts: around front wing, around front wheel/suspension, around rear wing, middle body, far. Design of the car can be corresponding separated to 4 parts and optimized separately.
https://pic2.zhimg.com/80/v2-fb2327b027 ... _720w.webp
https://pic2.zhimg.com/80/v2-417cb332cd ... _720w.webp
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-1e8c7d6e25 ... _720w.webp


3. Summary
I analyze flow data and optimize for maximize downforce, get ClA from 5.0~5.8, CdA 1.5~1.7 for different rake angles. Currently not consider reduce CdA, so drag may be too much, and the downforce and drag don’t include momentum change of internal flow.
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-19cac0c3bc ... _720w.webp

My iteration reaches 70+ versions, here I gather some part of notes when comparing versions and analyze flow structure:
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-b7a7389e47 ... _720w.webp

https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-f07d8e625f ... _720w.webp
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-53083ded53 ... _720w.webp

4. Key Flow Structure: 3 vortices, I call them “edge up vortex” “edge down vortex” “fence vortex”
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-801ac52dd4 ... _720w.webp
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-b0c4c6befe ... _720w.webp

5. Compare between Red Bull and Ferrari, focus on sidepod, engine cover, fence, floor edge:
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-337e74dd3c ... _720w.webp
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-fa19e991cf ... _720w.webp

6. Flexibility of floor edge
The floor edge can utilize its flexibility to bend downward at high speed, reducing the distance from the ground, significantly reducing the airflow involved in the bottom of the car, and significantly increasing the downforce. But in regulation of 2023, the flexibility is reduced.
The picture below shows the ground clearance when the McLaren is just out of pit and the ground clearance when running, and the similar difference of my simulation. With bended edge, downforce increases significantly, and the core is the bending reduce the in-wash under the floor edge. Red Bull’s floor edge may also utilize the flexibility.
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-bb4af1f64b ... _720w.webp

7. Rake angle
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-3fa6732d83 ... _720w.webp

8. Different diveplane outwash effect
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-e051443b15 ... _720w.webp

9. Some other detail
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-215f865277 ... _720w.webp
https://pic2.zhimg.com/80/v2-6e2a7d4429 ... _720w.webp
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-d24616a122 ... _720w.webp
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-0af10262a0 ... _720w.webp
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-44f3c41917 ... _720w.webp

10. I've checked regulation of 2023, higher floor edge needs more design iterations. Higher floor make less lost for high rake cars, such as Redbull. So I predict Red Bull can defend the champion in 2023.
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-c4977fb8b8 ... _720w.webp
Phenomenal work! Thank you very much for your effort! Its highly appreciated!

FDD
FDD
15
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Latios wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:18 pm
Base on previous analysis (viewtopic.php?t=30329), I continue my analysis and go deeper into flow structure, more iterations, here is the report.
1. Compliance
The pictures below show my CAD model’s compliance to regulation, including control volume/surface, fence direction, cross section shape, curvature, etc. I choose wheelbase 3500.
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-3b3e425f8b ... _720w.webp

2. CFD method:
RANS+ SST turbulence model
Steady Flow (Transient simulation is too time-consuming for the PC)
Mesh: unstructured mesh, 60 million cells for half model (the PC’s memory cannot hold full model 120 million cells). Split space around car to 5 parts: around front wing, around front wheel/suspension, around rear wing, middle body, far. Design of the car can be corresponding separated to 4 parts and optimized separately.
https://pic2.zhimg.com/80/v2-fb2327b027 ... _720w.webp
https://pic2.zhimg.com/80/v2-417cb332cd ... _720w.webp
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-1e8c7d6e25 ... _720w.webp


3. Summary
I analyze flow data and optimize for maximize downforce, get ClA from 5.0~5.8, CdA 1.5~1.7 for different rake angles. Currently not consider reduce CdA, so drag may be too much, and the downforce and drag don’t include momentum change of internal flow.
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-19cac0c3bc ... _720w.webp

My iteration reaches 70+ versions, here I gather some part of notes when comparing versions and analyze flow structure:
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-b7a7389e47 ... _720w.webp

https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-f07d8e625f ... _720w.webp
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-53083ded53 ... _720w.webp

4. Key Flow Structure: 3 vortices, I call them “edge up vortex” “edge down vortex” “fence vortex”
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-801ac52dd4 ... _720w.webp
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-b0c4c6befe ... _720w.webp

5. Compare between Red Bull and Ferrari, focus on sidepod, engine cover, fence, floor edge:
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-337e74dd3c ... _720w.webp
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-fa19e991cf ... _720w.webp

6. Flexibility of floor edge
The floor edge can utilize its flexibility to bend downward at high speed, reducing the distance from the ground, significantly reducing the airflow involved in the bottom of the car, and significantly increasing the downforce. But in regulation of 2023, the flexibility is reduced.
The picture below shows the ground clearance when the McLaren is just out of pit and the ground clearance when running, and the similar difference of my simulation. With bended edge, downforce increases significantly, and the core is the bending reduce the in-wash under the floor edge. Red Bull’s floor edge may also utilize the flexibility.
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-bb4af1f64b ... _720w.webp

7. Rake angle
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-3fa6732d83 ... _720w.webp

8. Different diveplane outwash effect
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-e051443b15 ... _720w.webp

9. Some other detail
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-215f865277 ... _720w.webp
https://pic2.zhimg.com/80/v2-6e2a7d4429 ... _720w.webp
https://pic3.zhimg.com/80/v2-d24616a122 ... _720w.webp
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-0af10262a0 ... _720w.webp
https://pic4.zhimg.com/80/v2-44f3c41917 ... _720w.webp

10. I've checked regulation of 2023, higher floor edge needs more design iterations. Higher floor make less lost for high rake cars, such as Redbull. So I predict Red Bull can defend the champion in 2023.
https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-c4977fb8b8 ... _720w.webp
Huge effort. Thank you so much. Great material for learning :)

User avatar
SiLo
103
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

This is incredibly insightful work. Thank you! I hope you can contribute further to the forum in future as this really helps drive discussions on what the designs of the cars are actually achieving.
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
Vanja #66
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

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Great stuff again Latios! Could you share with us some detail shots of floor model differences between the two?
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Great stuff in the last page. Any idea of the impact of the diffuser throat change?

yamahasho
yamahasho
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Great work,

For those, including myself, that don't know how to go from the coefficients to actual downforce what is the total downforce at various speeds? 7k-10k of downforce? Any stalling images?

Funny how the whole car looks like a big wing from the bottom, top and side but the front nose appears to be doing nothing, it's probably a spec part where no shapes are allowed.
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.

Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

yamahasho wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:54 pm
Great work,

For those, including myself, that don't know how to go from the coefficients to actual downforce what is the total downforce at various speeds? 7k-10k of downforce? Any stalling images?

Funny how the whole car looks like a big wing from the bottom, top and side but the front nose appears to be doing nothing, it's probably a spec part where no shapes are allowed.
Downforce = ClA (i.e. Coefficient * refrence area) * dynamic pressure of far field
= ClA * 0.5* rho *v^2
In my simulation, rho = 1.185 kg/m^3, v=60m/s
so ClA=1 means downforce = 2133 N
so my ClA 5.84 = 12456 N when 60m/s

Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:50 pm
Great stuff in the last page. Any idea of the impact of the diffuser throat change?
If you means the throat change in regulation of 2023, it's just higher by less than 20 mm, may not make much difference.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
81
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Latios wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:14 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:50 pm
Great stuff in the last page. Any idea of the impact of the diffuser throat change?
If you means the throat change in regulation of 2023, it's just higher by less than 20 mm, may not make much difference.
I assumed it would have some effect since the FIA introduced it but if you don't think so, then I will take that conclusion.

With that said, I don't really understand the need for the regs changes when all teams have the porpoising sorted at this point. Even the Ferrari doesn't bounce anymore since the floor update in Singapore.

Latios
Latios
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Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:17 am
Great stuff again Latios! Could you share with us some detail shots of floor model differences between the two?
I compared diff edge/sidepod/fence when rake changes, the changed elements are correlated, seems Ferrari solution will have most balance (more front) change when rake increases.

Image

Image

Image

Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:28 pm
Latios wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:14 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:50 pm
Great stuff in the last page. Any idea of the impact of the diffuser throat change?
If you means the throat change in regulation of 2023, it's just higher by less than 20 mm, may not make much difference.
I assumed it would have some effect since the FIA introduced it but if you don't think so, then I will take that conclusion.

With that said, I don't really understand the need for the regs changes when all teams have the porpoising sorted at this point. Even the Ferrari doesn't bounce anymore since the floor update in Singapore.
The main reason of less porpoising by next year's regulation is the higher floor edge and floor edge wings. Higher throat will benefit also. but the stall may happen at end of plank, which could be very close to ground, but the throat of tunnel is not close to ground even in 2022 reg.

Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Besides, could anyone help me to connect to aerodynamicist or HR of F1 teams? I really hope to get a job there :D .

yamahasho
yamahasho
10
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Latios wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:11 pm
yamahasho wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:54 pm
Great work,

For those, including myself, that don't know how to go from the coefficients to actual downforce what is the total downforce at various speeds? 7k-10k of downforce? Any stalling images?

Funny how the whole car looks like a big wing from the bottom, top and side but the front nose appears to be doing nothing, it's probably a spec part where no shapes are allowed.
Downforce = ClA (i.e. Coefficient * refrence area) * dynamic pressure of far field
= ClA * 0.5* rho *v^2
In my simulation, rho = 1.185 kg/m^3, v=60m/s
so ClA=1 means downforce = 2133 N
so my ClA 5.84 = 12456 N when 60m/s
So 2800 lbs of downforce at 134mph, not bad, any article that compares any numbers to a wind tunnel and more importantly an actual circuit test.

What is the purpose of vortices, is it just to seal the floor or do they have other benefits?

Do you have a CFD when the car begins to propoise?
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.

yamahasho
yamahasho
10
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Post

Latios wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:49 pm
Besides, could anyone help me to connect to aerodynamicist or HR of F1 teams? I really hope to get a job there :D .
I posted something similar in off topic, don’t want to work with boring spec F1 but my guess you need to know someone on the inside or start in the lower formula and move up. Otherwise your skills resume get lost in cyberspace.
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.