2022 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 11 - 13

[MadMax]

Max admitted that he just drove there knowing that there would be no room.

The stewards stated, quite correctly, that Max hadn't got the move done in T1 and therefore was in no position to expect to take in T2. They said that Hamilton could have given a little more room but that the collision was predominantly Max's fault.

Stewards are always correct when my driver isn't the one that is getting penalized otherwise they suck and I don't agree with them!

Of course. That's the way it is in this forum.

[Wouter]

What did Verstappen say he said in the summer?

.
Perez thought in Monaco that he could still become world champion. He has admitted that he crashed on purpose in qualifying when Max put in a super fast lap that put him on pole. Max therefore lost the pole position.

In France, Checo still thought he could become world champion. In qualifying, they always took turns giving each other a tow. This time, Max first gave Checo a tow in Q3 , but then Checo refused to tow Max on his last lap, even though that was the deal with the team.
Then Max said that Checo shouldn't expect any more presents from him.

These two events led Max to speak with the team again this past weekend about not giving Checo gifts. The team agreed, but nevertheless they asked Max yesterday to let Perez pass!

[DGP123]

As for the race, bar the T2 incident, it was another bore fest. This, following another one in Mexico. Been a poor season in all, and although the cars have been able to follow more easily, it hasn’t translated into good racing. Increased usage of the SC has been the main contributor to generating action, which showcases how naturally poor the racing has become. Both championships decided early, to conclude what has been a highly forgetful season.

Hopefully next season is fireworks, because this season has been a dud, with driver rivalries once again, being the only relatively interesting talking points.

[mrluke]

Why would the car in front back off? When has that been the rule?

Hamilton was a cars width from the apex and max still didn't make the corner even after hitting ham.

It's a standard max line, cut from a super early apex to straight off the track and let the other guy get out the way.

Difference was ham didn't have a wdc lead to protect this time.

Care to share this cars width from the apex?

Look at where Russel's car is here


Vs Hamilton's here


Russel is taking the racing line, Hamilton is wide of that by give or take a car width.

Bigger issue is the line / speed Max was taking was going to take him wide of the corner exit anyway.

Another shot of the normal line.

[chrisc90]

^^ completely irrelevant if max can make the corner whilst leaving Lewis space. I bet you could find many lap 1 cars that were In similar space

[DChemTech]

Why would the car in front back off? When has that been the rule?

Hamilton was a cars width from the apex and max still didn't make the corner even after hitting ham.

It's a standard max line, cut from a super early apex to straight off the track and let the other guy get out the way.

Difference was ham didn't have a wdc lead to protect this time.

Care to share this cars width from the apex?

Look at where Russel's car is here
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg

Vs Hamilton's here
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg

Russel is taking the racing line, Hamilton is wide of that by give or take a car width.

Bigger issue is the line / speed Max was taking was going to take him wide of the corner exit anyway.

Another shot of the normal line.

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp ... racing.jpg

"give or take a car width" is not really sufficient, it should be at least a car width - 0.7 car widths is not enough if there is someone besides you.

[DGP123]

^^ Another weak defence for Max. If he make the corner……. He wasn’t going to make the corner, he had no intention of making the corner, he even admitted to us all, saying Lewis would close the door. It’s what he would of done. Astonishing how blinkered people are to defend this stuff.

He pretty much admitted in the pre race show the car and it’s setup was ****. He had nothing to lose, and went into the race with that mindset. Therefore, it was no surprise to see the aggressive, reckless driving coming out to play.

[chrisc90]

Another question then…. Would they have touched if Lewis gave max racing room on the inside? Don’t forget the stewards also picked up on the lack of room.

[DChemTech]

^^ Another weak defence for Max. If he make the corner……. He wasn’t going to make the corner, he had no intention of making the corner, he even admitted to it all. Astonishing how blinkered people are to defend this stuff.

He pretty much admitted in the pre race show the car and it’s setup was ****. He had nothing to lose, and went into the race with that mindset. Therefore, it was no surprise to see the aggressive, reckless driving coming out to play.

He did not admit he was not going to make the corner - he mentioned that he was sure Lewis would not provide space, but that he went for it nevertheless. Of course, that is a disputable decision in that he could have backed off instead of jeopardizing his race, but it has nothing with whether or not he would make the corner in case Lewis provided the room that, given his position, Max was entitled for.

[Gooch]

To be fair, that's after the contact when Hamilton is already pushed wide. I would say he gave about 1/2 a car's width, not that it really matters.

https://imgur.com/a/ropL6tp

Max was on the kerb before they made contact and ended up more than a car's width off the track at corner exit. To me this suggests pretty convincingly that he was never going to make the corner (definitely not with Hamilton also making the corner alongside, either), but I would also like to see the telemetry to really seal the deal. Imagine the stewards had this information when they made the call which I hope they'll make again in the future.

It reminds me of Brazil last year (hooray) where Verstappen got alongside Hamilton into T4. If you go purely by positioning at the apex most people would call it a good move but IIRC the telemetry showed that he was something like 20kph faster at the apex than any other lap during the race, hence why he proceeded to run both cars off the track. That kind of driving is dangerous and should not be allowed to persist in any manner. The only difference between that and this year is Hamilton didn't have to keep his title hopes alive so he gladly shut the door.

[chrisc90]

Look at the 3rd from last pair of cars going through turn 2. Exactly the same as max and Lewis. Guess what, car on the inside of turn 2 makes the corner. Magical that isn’t it. And there are people claiming that the line he had he wouldn’t have made the corner because he was off the racing line.

[DGP123]

That is nothing alike. They are tip toeing around at the back at much less speed, there’s no intensity, and both cars look much further away from the kerb.

[Gooch]

At that start of the race with the field packed together, it's fair to assume they were traveling much slower than Max and Hamilton were into T2 in much cleaner air.

I bet you if Max went in at a similar speed to the backmarkers they wouldn't have even been alongside each other at the apex of the corner.

[DGP123]

If you go purely by positioning at the apex most people would call it a good move but IIRC the telemetry showed that he was something like 20kph faster at the apex than any other lap during the race, hence why he proceeded to run both cars off the track. That kind of driving is dangerous and should not be allowed to persist in any manner. The only difference between that and this year is Hamilton didn't have to keep his title hopes alive so he gladly shut the door.

Yep, this is Max’s MO. Overspeed, less braking, and a mindset that I’m coming through, and you either yield or we both collide. It’s tiring to watch, yet some believe it’s acceptable and him being hard done by. Incredible.

5 sec pens won’t stop it from continuing either.

[AnthonyG]

Both were overtakes which went wrong. Both incidents very similar. The fact that one was unlapping himself doesn't mean it wasn't a similar move.

You cant say one the person on the inside is at fault when the person on the outside is at fault in the other incident.

Yes you can, because unlapping is not the same as overtaking. Overtaking means you take over a position while racing, unlapping does not.

Schumi showed in 2012 how to defend hard but fair with Kimi, as mendis pointed out. Both Hamilton and Max get red mist seeing one another. This time Max had every right to be in that position on track and nowhere to go. The fact he knew what Hamilton would do just shows that both of them affect each other and know it.

Verstappen knew the door would close and decided to have the accident. He even admitted it post race saying he did it to take Hamilton's chance for a win.
I think he gets pleasure from the idea that Hamilton will, for the first time in his carreer, not win a race this season. Statistics matter.

And "nowhere to go" is an unfair statement, he can always press the brake, back off and try again later if he's fast enough.