Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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continuum16
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Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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2022 is over; it's time to crack on with everyone's favorite time of the year; December through February... speculation season

The AMR23 will be the first car fully developed under Dan Fallows, although it will not benefit from the new factory design infrastructure. Regardless, Fallows has already commented that it will have some "significant differences" to the 2022 version:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/aston ... /10409331/

Worth noting that in addition to Fallows, this car includes design input from ex-Mercedes aero chief Eric Blandin. Compared to most teams on the grid, I'm expecting this to be one of the most substantial redesigns given the AMR22's lack of pace and completely different design leaders.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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FW17
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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Aston continuing with Mercedes suspension design or will they be making their own which will complement their aero design?

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Stu
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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I think that is the big question regarding the car, they will obviously take the Merc gearbox, but their own rear chassis structure could/should be a benefit.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Henk_v
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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There are two options (I think)
If they want to go big, they need to get in line with the champions.

Zeropod
Merc had the zeropod idea, but was surprised by porpoising. Any engineer would at least explore if, with the lessons learned this season, they think they can make it work. Especially as a lot of the merc parts that fit the zeropod concept can be bought. Copying merc is somewhat of a guilty pleasure for AM.

There is some benefit for merc too. You never know what Wolf and Stroll discuss by candlelight.

RB 19
There is some chance Fallows knows quite a bit on how the RB19 would look, but even more important, how it works. When RB committed to the RB18 design, they must have stipulated a few development directions too. No designer will trap himself in a concept without prospects. Some if/thens must have been discussed between him and Newey. If you know what you want, you can find the suitable aero. They have the most data on an RB style of concept.

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Alok91
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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Henk_v wrote:
09 Dec 2022, 13:17
There are two options (I think)
If they want to go big, they need to get in line with the champions.

Zeropod
Merc had the zeropod idea, but was surprised by porpoising. Any engineer would at least explore if, with the lessons learned this season, they think they can make it work. Especially as a lot of the merc parts that fit the zeropod concept can be bought. Copying merc is somewhat of a guilty pleasure for AM.

There is some benefit for merc too. You never know what Wolf and Stroll discuss by candlelight.

RB 19
There is some chance Fallows knows quite a bit on how the RB19 would look, but even more important, how it works. When RB committed to the RB18 design, they must have stipulated a few development directions too. No designer will trap himself in a concept without prospects. Some if/thens must have been discussed between him and Newey. If you know what you want, you can find the suitable aero. They have the most data on an RB style of concept.
Dan Fallow the cheif technical director have said that they won't copy redbull or mercedes, they are going their own way with concept of amr23.Some parts maybe similar to top teams but i don't expect complete cloning of frontrunning teams.

Vaexa
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ison-2023/
Aston Martin wants to move away from seventh place. For this the car will change again the face. The AMR23 for the upcoming Formula 1 season already looks significantly different from its predecessor in the wind tunnel - say the engineers. Aston Martin has high hopes for newcomer Fernando Alonso.

Aston Martin has not declared a real goal in the form of a ranking for the coming Formula 1 season. One thing is clear, however: The Silverstone-based racing team has to move away from the seventh place in the Constructors' World Championship it occupied in 2022. This place does not fit with the self-image and the high investments made at Silverstone.

Aston Martin must fight for the front positions in the midfield in 2023. It has to score more than the 55 points in the past Formula 1 year. The opponents there are likely to be Alpine and McLaren, who drove their own race for fourth place behind the top teams in 2022. Race director Mike Krack's team was over 100 points short of the two.

Aston Martin's hopes rest on several pillars. The new additions to the engineering department - most notably Dan Fallows (from Red Bull) and Eric Blandin (from Mercedes) - are expected to have a greater impact on the new project. This time, they were more or less there at the birth of the race car, rather than joining when the car was already running. And it ran poorly. Aston Martin was plagued with severe bouncing at the start of the 2022 season. The green race car therefore had to be run with increased ground clearance.

Two projects cost time

This caused high downforce loss because the aerodynamics were designed to run low and hard. The values from the wind tunnel and simulations could not be achieved with the chassis jacked up and trimmed to hard. Drivers missed feedback in the steering. They didn't feel their car. In addition, the Aston Martin AMR22 was well over the minimum weight. "We couldn't drive the car in the window it was built for," regrets operations manager Tom McCullough. "It wasn't until Miami that we were able to put on a reasonable race pace." That was the fifth Grand Prix of the year.

By then, the decision had long been made to debut a B version at the following race in Spain. One that looked confusingly similar to the Red Bull RB18 in parts like the sidepods. Aston Martin had been working on two projects in parallel over the winter.

From the Spanish GP, they switched to the version that promised less bounce, a wider working window and better development opportunities for the future. Having two approaches in the quiver made it easier to switch, but also brought disadvantages: "Having two different approaches took us weeks, if not months, to work exclusively with the new concept." The concept that took hold from Barcelona on. Aston Martin improved from the bottom of the table to the broad midfield.

Aston with too many compromises

The B version of the B version came to the home race at Silverstone. And with it, the next step. In the course of the season, Aston Martin concentrated mainly on the underbody and the diffuser after the major conversion of the sidepods. On the underbody, work was done in particular on the front baffles, the entrances to the Venturi ducts, and the side edges. "We had a lot of underbody updates. For example, at Paul Ricard, Silverstone and the last one in Singapore." The last major modification of the year was signed off and launched before the factories closed in August.

Since then, engineers have been fully focused on the 2023 project. The squad of new and old is more attuned. "When new people come in, it never goes smoothly. They have to integrate. They have to understand how we work and why we do it the way we do. And we have to deal with and embrace their new approaches. That takes time." Work processes are adjusted as the team grows. Meanwhile, Aston Martin has slowed the pace of new hires. That doesn't mean more engineers won't join. The goal is to grow to the level of the top teams.

The rebuild during the season made it easier for engineers and drivers to trim the car for each track. However, the change in philosophy was accompanied by an increase in drag, although the opposite is true at Red Bull. "We knew that was happening. One weakness we need to work on specifically for 2023 is drag. Our car was not efficient." It lacked top speed. That made the Aston Martin vulnerable on the straights. And forced the engineers into too many compromises. "Fewer than at the beginning of the year, but still into too many."

New nose for AMR23?

Aston Martin analyzed the strengths and weaknesses of the AMR22 in detail. How does it compare with the competition in the various corners, from slow to fast? How on the straights - with and without DRS? Straight ahead was too slow, as described. Downforce was lacking in fast corners. The inefficient aerodynamics meant that Aston Martin was proportionally better on racetracks that demand maximum downforce. Because everyone there drives with big wings.

Whenever a decision had to be made between small or larger - such as at Spa-Francorchamps - Aston Martin suffered in particular. Then you either sacrifice speed in the corners or starve on the straights. You have to swallow a toad. Toward the end of the season, however, progress was made in this regard as well. Even if not sufficiently. "We still have deficits in many different areas. For aerodynamics and mechanics, we have quite a lot of development going on."

He said the AMR23 would look so different from its predecessor that it would be obvious to the naked eye. That would already be seen in the wind tunnel model, which is hidden from public view. The Aston Martin engineers give a hint. They had driven the entire season with virtually the same nose and front wing. Without a budget cap, as has existed in Formula 1 since 2021, changes would certainly have been made in this area. It's safe to assume that's what will happen with the new race car.

Alonso in the factory

Compared to last year, the teams are developing on a completely different basis. The first cars of the new ground effect era were built on assumptions and forecasts. Now they have real data from 22 Grand Prix. They know how the cars behave in different driving conditions. Knowledge can be transferred. But some of it can't. Aston Martin has to mothball the innovative rear wing with the curved end plates that debuted in Hungary. The regulators have banned it.

A big issue for Aston Martin are the tires. The AMR22 was too kind to them. The drivers found it difficult to get the Pirellis into the temperature window on a lap. But the gentle handling in the race helped. How do you find the balance? "That's a question we ask ourselves very often and spend a lot of time trying to answer." Perhaps newcomer Fernando Alonso can help with his experience at Alpine.

The former world champion already sat in the AMR22 for a day after the race in Abu Dhabi. After that, Alonso was to spend a few days in the factory at Silverstone. To test in the simulator and get to know his new team better. And to deepen the knowledge gained from the test and incorporate it into the development of the AMR23.
I always found it very interesting how Aston Martin ran the same nosecone and distinct front wings even after they brought out their R̶B̶1̶8̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶y̶ parallel development direction at Spain.

It feels like the higher nosecone and undernose ''arch'' are not the way to go, given AT brought an entire new nosecone to move away from it.

TimmTurbo
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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Did somebody see the YouTube Short with Alonso? He was wearing a cap with some light lemon green. Maybe they will change livery to that as well

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RedNEO
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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TimmTurbo wrote:
02 Jan 2023, 20:42
Did somebody see the YouTube Short with Alonso? He was wearing a cap with some light lemon green. Maybe they will change livery to that as well
The cap is basically the one in the first video but inverted colors. Looks nice though

NAPI10
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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TimmTurbo wrote:
02 Jan 2023, 20:42
Did somebody see the YouTube Short with Alonso? He was wearing a cap with some light lemon green. Maybe they will change livery to that as well
I want them to continue with last year's liveries; one of the best on the grid.

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RedNEO
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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NAPI10 wrote:
04 Jan 2023, 17:05
TimmTurbo wrote:
02 Jan 2023, 20:42
Did somebody see the YouTube Short with Alonso? He was wearing a cap with some light lemon green. Maybe they will change livery to that as well
I want them to continue with last year's liveries; one of the best on the grid.
Concur. I think it will stay the best this year.

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organic
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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a snippet from

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... no-excuses]

Which is well worth a read
“We took all our learnings from last year’s car and applied them to this year’s car. So much of the AMR23 is new, it’s completely different from the AMR22. We’ve changed more than 90 percent of the parts, and more than 95 percent of the aerodynamic surfaces are different.

AR3-GP
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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This is getting more interesting by the day.

AR3-GP
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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Is Aston still using Mercedes suspension and gearbox?

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continuum16
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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AR3-GP wrote:
19 Jan 2023, 22:32
Is Aston still using Mercedes suspension and gearbox?
I haven’t seen confirmation, but I’ve seen nothing to indicate otherwise. I’d wager a lot that the 2023 Merc suspension/gearbox will bear very little resemblance to last year, anyways :wink:
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain

AR3-GP
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Re: Aston Martin AMR23 Speculation Thread

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continuum16 wrote:
20 Jan 2023, 00:18
AR3-GP wrote:
19 Jan 2023, 22:32
Is Aston still using Mercedes suspension and gearbox?
I haven’t seen confirmation, but I’ve seen nothing to indicate otherwise. I’d wager a lot that the 2023 Merc suspension/gearbox will bear very little resemblance to last year, anyways :wink:
Yes I was sort of trying to reverse engineer Aston's "we have changed the entire car" comment to understand what Mercedes had done since they depend on a few parts from Merc. In this case, I agree it's likely that Mercedes also retooled their entire rear end componentry and Aston have done the same as a result.