2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Big Tea]

The power unit in the RB19 is being flattered by the RB19 chassis and it's aero. Compare the same power unit with its claimed longest deployment of them all when used in the RB19 sister team car.

claimed longest deployment is based on data not opinion .the performance difference in f1 is measured in tenth of second so you cant expert dramatic difference from engines alone.if rebull was competiting againt cars with equal level of perfomance then having a honda pu will be an advantage eg in 2021 in a champ fight with merc the hondas lost about 7hp over a course of six to seven races ,merc lost about 50hp which forced them to use more pu. these is knowhow gained over many years in motorsport.

the idea that the rb19 chassis flatters the honda pu is silly because the shape ,dimension and characteristic of pu dictates what chassis redbull built.if they were using a different pu then they will bulid a different car and no quarantee it will be competitive.the honda is small and compact which help with channelling air to back of car which help in generating downforce.they also found novel ways to harvest with mguh without compromising combution efficiency.the result of all that is they dont lean too much on mguk harvesting therefore help with laptimes.alpha tauri is a small team with a budget to match ,but they maybe backmarkers but in the race they fight for points which show a pu working well

- A 4 cylinder engine was proposed...but abandoned.

Proposed to the FIA?

I get a bad feeling about them switching from Honda to Ford.

This is a point that is worrying regarding the new RB-Ford PU collaboration.

Honda developed a cylinder coating technology that is unrivaled currently. As a result, their ICE power doesn't degrade appreciably over time. Merc was losing 3-4 tenths of performance over 7 race weekends. Honda was losing a tenth at most.


Maybe I will be proven wrong about this, but it seems like RB should stick to what they do best, and Honda stick to what they do best. I struggle to imagine that Rb won't have reliability issues in 2026.

Ford do not have a good record in F1 when using their own design engine. If they can 'import' one it could be better for all concerned, and if Red Bull already have a prototype it could work out better in the long run to develop that rather than an outright new from scratch unit.

[AR3-GP]

claimed longest deployment is based on data not opinion .the performance difference in f1 is measured in tenth of second so you cant expert dramatic difference from engines alone.if rebull was competiting againt cars with equal level of perfomance then having a honda pu will be an advantage eg in 2021 in a champ fight with merc the hondas lost about 7hp over a course of six to seven races ,merc lost about 50hp which forced them to use more pu. these is knowhow gained over many years in motorsport.

the idea that the rb19 chassis flatters the honda pu is silly because the shape ,dimension and characteristic of pu dictates what chassis redbull built.if they were using a different pu then they will bulid a different car and no quarantee it will be competitive.the honda is small and compact which help with channelling air to back of car which help in generating downforce.they also found novel ways to harvest with mguh without compromising combution efficiency.the result of all that is they dont lean too much on mguk harvesting therefore help with laptimes.alpha tauri is a small team with a budget to match ,but they maybe backmarkers but in the race they fight for points which show a pu working well

Proposed to the FIA?

I get a bad feeling about them switching from Honda to Ford.

This is a point that is worrying regarding the new RB-Ford PU collaboration.

Honda developed a cylinder coating technology that is unrivaled currently. As a result, their ICE power doesn't degrade appreciably over time. Merc was losing 3-4 tenths of performance over 7 race weekends. Honda was losing a tenth at most.


Maybe I will be proven wrong about this, but it seems like RB should stick to what they do best, and Honda stick to what they do best. I struggle to imagine that Rb won't have reliability issues in 2026.

Ford do not have a good record in F1 when using their own design engine. If they can 'import' one it could be better for all concerned, and if Red Bull already have a prototype it could work out better in the long run to develop that rather than an outright new from scratch unit.

As I understand it, Ford has nothing to do with the engine. They are just a sponsor with naming rights. The entire operation is in Milton Keynes. Ford will likely lend any software, materials sourcing, and technology which RBPT can pick there way through in case there is anything interesting, but the success is largely going to come down to what RBPT in the UK is able to come up with. Ford are not in charge.

[Big Tea]

This is a point that is worrying regarding the new RB-Ford PU collaboration.

Honda developed a cylinder coating technology that is unrivaled currently. As a result, their ICE power doesn't degrade appreciably over time. Merc was losing 3-4 tenths of performance over 7 race weekends. Honda was losing a tenth at most.


Maybe I will be proven wrong about this, but it seems like RB should stick to what they do best, and Honda stick to what they do best. I struggle to imagine that Rb won't have reliability issues in 2026.

Ford do not have a good record in F1 when using their own design engine. If they can 'import' one it could be better for all concerned, and if Red Bull already have a prototype it could work out better in the long run to develop that rather than an outright new from scratch unit.

As I understand it, Ford has nothing to do with the engine. They are just a sponsor with naming rights. The entire operation is in Milton Keynes. Ford will likely lend any software, materials sourcing, and technology which RBPT can pick there way through in case there is anything interesting, but the success is largely going to come down to what RBPT in the UK is able to come up with. Ford are not in charge.

Probably better off then. Board room committees tend to mess up f1 projects

[chrisc90]

RBPT employed a lot of the Honda PU staff aswell didnt they?

Plus they have a few heads from Mercedes powertrains...

[AR3-GP]

claimed longest deployment is based on data not opinion .the performance difference in f1 is measured in tenth of second so you cant expert dramatic difference from engines alone.if rebull was competiting againt cars with equal level of perfomance then having a honda pu will be an advantage eg in 2021 in a champ fight with merc the hondas lost about 7hp over a course of six to seven races ,merc lost about 50hp which forced them to use more pu. these is knowhow gained over many years in motorsport.

the idea that the rb19 chassis flatters the honda pu is silly because the shape ,dimension and characteristic of pu dictates what chassis redbull built.if they were using a different pu then they will bulid a different car and no quarantee it will be competitive.the honda is small and compact which help with channelling air to back of car which help in generating downforce.they also found novel ways to harvest with mguh without compromising combution efficiency.the result of all that is they dont lean too much on mguk harvesting therefore help with laptimes.alpha tauri is a small team with a budget to match ,but they maybe backmarkers but in the race they fight for points which show a pu working well

Proposed to the FIA?

I get a bad feeling about them switching from Honda to Ford.

This is a point that is worrying regarding the new RB-Ford PU collaboration.

Honda developed a cylinder coating technology that is unrivaled currently. As a result, their ICE power doesn't degrade appreciably over time. Merc was losing 3-4 tenths of performance over 7 race weekends. Honda was losing a tenth at most.


Maybe I will be proven wrong about this, but it seems like RB should stick to what they do best, and Honda stick to what they do best. I struggle to imagine that Rb won't have reliability issues in 2026.

Even if RB have reliability issues for a few years beginning in 2026, over the long term developing their own engine manufacturing facilities, connections, expertise is the right move if they want to be a championship contending team consistently over the decades.

Honda returning to the sport and going from being fairly uncompetitive to having the best engine within a few years was not really foreseeable and RB were incredibly fortunate this happened. Honda are unpredictable in terms of their motorsport commitment having withdrawn multiple times.. how can RB rely on them to stay committed? They could be left high & dry and stuck with Renault engines at any time if Honda brass change their mind for the umpteenth time

Honda are particularly appealing as an engine manufacturer for the 2026 rules as their electrical technology (battery, harvesting, software) all seems exemplary. However we do not know what the future of F1 will be powertrains-wise: Honda as a brand may fully electrify whilst F1 may opt towards more combustion down the line when biofuels are more available and beneficial for racing series, at which point Honda's perceived advantage would not really exist

There are other benefits as well. Developing your own engine allows certain advantages with chassis integration & doing it on the same site allows close partnership of the chassis and engine development. Minor benefit but the team also will have to expand certain on-site operations which can save costs even for the F1 team proper ( through economies of scale) eg catering costs.

There will be problems perhaps even catastrophic but the long-term benefits of being a complete manufacturer are undeniable for a team like RB

Yes I understand, short term pain for long term gain, but any pain at all will not please those who are reveling in the current situation

[vorticism]

As I understand it, Ford has nothing to do with the engine. They are just a sponsor with naming rights. The entire operation is in Milton Keynes. Ford will likely lend any software, materials sourcing, and technology which RBPT can pick there way through in case there is anything interesting, but the success is largely going to come down to what RBPT in the UK is able to come up with. Ford are not in charge.

Although it sounded like it was going to be a rather different arrangement with Honda--a licensing of preexisting tech. If Ford is more akin to a Tag Heuer / Aston Marting engine branding exercise then this would be a big shift in the intent and goals for RBPT, switching from builder to designer and builder.

[AR3-GP]

As I understand it, Ford has nothing to do with the engine. They are just a sponsor with naming rights. The entire operation is in Milton Keynes. Ford will likely lend any software, materials sourcing, and technology which RBPT can pick there way through in case there is anything interesting, but the success is largely going to come down to what RBPT in the UK is able to come up with. Ford are not in charge.

Although it sounded like it was going to be a rather different arrangement with Honda--a licensing of preexisting tech. If Ford is more akin to a Tag Heuer / Aston Marting engine branding exercise then this would be a big shift in the intent and goals for RBPT, switching from builder to designer and builder.

I thought that much was clear already. RBPT already had a V6 on a dyno months before the Ford partnership was announced.

[vorticism]

Sure, I'm just saying that must have been a big moment in their history, when they realized the Honda arrangement wasn't feasible. "Well, we have to design engines now."

Why would Ford of all manufactures want their name on an RBPT engine? There are many other automakers out there. Not saying any would be better nor worse, just wondering how their interest came to be.

Sidenote: the RB17 was announced within this time period. I assume it will use a derivative of this RBPT engine.

[AR3-GP]

Sure, I'm just saying that must have been a big moment in their history, when they realized the Honda arrangement wasn't feasible. "Well, we have to design engines now."

Why would Ford of all manufactures want their name on an RBPT engine? There are many other automakers out there. Not saying any would be better nor worse, just wondering how their interest came to be.

Sidenote: the RB17 was announced within this time period. I assume it will use this RBPT engine.

They have been mulling their motorsports positions for a few years now. We were lead to believe they were going after the WEC and IMSA. It's very opportunistic on their side to pick up the pieces where Porsche foolishly lost their way when they decided they wanted to take over RB...Honda's bureaucracy is what got us here in the first place.

[Wouter]

Ford Returns To Formula 1; Strategic Partner To Oracle Red Bull Racing For 2026 Season And Beyond
Feb 3, 2023 | New York

Red Bull Powertrains and Ford to partner on the development of the next-gen hybrid power unit that will supply engines
to both Oracle Red Bull Racing and Scuderia AlphaTauri teams from 2026 to at least 2030

Ford returns to Formula 1 as the FIA and F1 deepens its focus on sustainable racing and advanced hybrid technologies,
while leaving a legacy of positive change wherever it races

Ford will provide expertise in areas including battery cell and electric motor technology as well as power unit control software and analytics

.
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedi ... bull-.html

[Farnborough]

One of the most successful engine in F1 "Ford Cosworth DFV" was of this type originally.

Ultimately a Lotus construct, the lineage that is, that gave birth to Cosworth and bankrolled by Ford after Colin Chapman negotiations to get it payed for.

That's held Ford in very high esteem within motor racing history.

[vorticism]

Ford will provide expertise in areas including battery cell and electric motor technology as well as power unit control software and analytics

That being the case, it sounds more like the original plan with Honda. However Honda had specific tech relating to current F1 engines--Ford do not, although plenty more in the road vehicle division.

[lio007]

A thread from Sam Collins about their new wind tunnel building:






And another building for Red Bull Powertrains:

[Wouter]

Behind The Scenes, as Max Verstappen prepares to go racing.

[Wouter]

Sunday, 3:30 PM CET racing for raising money for Emilia Romagna!



Max Verstappen, Jak Crawford (Formula 2 driver), Isack Hadjar (Formula 2 driver), Ayumu Iwasa (Formula 2 driver), Enzo Fittipaldi (Formula 2 driver), Arvid Lindblad (Formula 4 driver), Luke Browning (Formula 3 driver), Felipe Drugovich (AM Reserve driver),
Shane van Gisbergen (Australian Supercars), Oliver Rowland (Formula E driver), Antonio da Costa (Formula E driver),
Richard Verschoor (Formula 2 driver), Jack Doohan (Formula 2 driver), Gabriel Bortoleto (Formula 3 driver), Sebastian Job (Red Bull Esports), Gianni Vecchio, Enzo Bonito, Luke Bennett, Chris Lulham, Jeffrey Rietveld, Kevin Siggy, Atze Kerkhof, Josh Thompson, Diogo Pinto.
.

"Max himself came up with the idea of organizing a sim race, so that there is still something to experience for the fans this weekend, but also to draw attention to what is happening in Emilia-Romagna and to help and to support the people affected by the storm by raising money," says Atze Kerkhof, who is a Dutch professional top sim race driver. In addition to his sim racing career, he trains and coaches professional racing drivers from Formula 1 to Formula 4.

"So this really happens on Max's initiative", Atze Kerkhof of Team Redline told Motorsport.com. Max himself will of course participate and there will be quite a few members of the Red Bull Junior Team with Enzo Fittipaldi, Ayumu Iwasa, Arvid Lindblad, Jak Crawford and Isack Hadjar."
Just like the previous races [during Covid] that were held under the name Real Racers Never Quit, there will be driven on iRacing.
“We will be running four races in a row at the Imola circuit, with four different cars,” Kerkhof explains the format of Sunday's event.
“We are doing a race with a Formula 3, a race with a Formula Ford, a race with a Mazda MX-5 and a race with a Toyota GR86.
Max chose these cars because they are not too difficult to master in the game, are fun to drive and can make for entertaining races for the viewers.
We could also have gone for a Formula 1 or GT3, but then you will spend a lot more time getting to know the game version
of the car and it might also be less competitive in the races. But because we want to have races that are fun to watch first and foremost, Max picked these four.”