2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[zibby43]

Question is how quickly they can get this concept on track. I am confused as to whether the vaunted sidepod upgrade for Baku/Imola is a continuation of the current concept or the new concept they've been developing over the past several weeks/months.

It wouldn't make sense to keep developing a concept that has a dead end, unless the developments can carry over to the new concept. They should use the 20 remaining races as an 8-month long testing session.

The forthcoming upgrades are a continuation of something that was cooked up months ago. They’ll continue to bring those forward and not waste the gains while they venture down the new path.

When we’ll see the true new path is a mystery at this point, I think.

The problem I see with this approach is, if this abandoned concept / new upgrades are put in the car and they gain enough to be at front, they will be completely lost as they will be working on a new concept already but the old one is giving you enough gain. So, if they are fully commited on a new concept wouldn't be better to stop all old concept development and work on new concept even if it means few months delay. Otherwise I feel they will get confused and will not commit in one way or other, staying on a place with not clear picture

I completely understand your well-reasoned logic, but they still may be able to glean some useful learnings by developing other areas of the car that may continue to be relevant going forward. There’s already the sunk cost in developing and manufacturing the parts on the way, such is the lead time for these sorts of things.

[mzso]

Backstreet boys were also cery successful.
I dont change my opinion. All of the young drivers are basically manufactured. It's only natural as the sport develops and grows.

And all the old ones as well. Jim Clark, Jacky Stewart, and Lauda were not manufactured. But that time was a while ago...

Hamilton 20 pts
Russell 18 pts

And Sainz has more than thrice the points of Leclerc... And, actually it's Russel 21...
Which drives home the point that it's utterly meaningless after two races.

[pursue_one's]

Nonsense. Hamilton was easily quicker during the races from the summer onwards last year, and Chandhok stated this last season on numerous occasions on Sky. Lewis also won the Q h2h last year. Lewis was ahead and quicker than Russell in Abu Dhabi too, before the car broke down. Beat Russell two weeks ago in Bahrain too.

Complete and utter nonsense that Russell has got a better feeling with these types of cars.

Agreed.

Except that Hamilton spelled it out that he doesn't feel the car...

Lewis said:

“I think if I had the set-up that George had, I would have been in a bit of a better position. So lots to work on, but there are positives to take away from it.”

Hamilton says the difference in car set-up between his and Russell’s cars was a simple case of the team splitting their set up approaches between their two drivers.

“It’s just there was like a 50/50 choice – I chose one way, he chose another,” Hamilton explained.

“More often than not, the way he went is the wrong one, but it just happened to work. I could only match his pace rather than be quicker this weekend. But I’ll work hard to make sure that two are in a better place next time.”

https://www.racefans.net/2023/03/19/ham ... ls-set-up/

[mkay]

Question is how quickly they can get this concept on track. I am confused as to whether the vaunted sidepod upgrade for Baku/Imola is a continuation of the current concept or the new concept they've been developing over the past several weeks/months.

It wouldn't make sense to keep developing a concept that has a dead end, unless the developments can carry over to the new concept. They should use the 20 remaining races as an 8-month long testing session.

The forthcoming upgrades are a continuation of something that was cooked up months ago. They’ll continue to bring those forward and not waste the gains while they venture down the new path.

When we’ll see the true new path is a mystery at this point, I think.

Just feels odd to me that they would continue to parallel-track 2 different concepts. Ideally, they would do like Aston did last year and introduce a proper B-spec car before its too late. They may suffer in the standings momentarily, but there's really nothing to lose as Red Bull is so far ahead that they can realistically plan for 2024 already.

[AMG.Tzan]

There’s no way they designed a new concept giving them huge numbers within two weeks from the Bahrain GP!

Apparently they wanted to build a base, see how it works on track and then build upon that…I mean there’s no way to design and implement a huge new concept to a car that instantly gives huge numbers, in just a week or two even in CFD! They’re talking about wind tunnel numbers too which means they’ve had a direction in mind quite some time ago! Bahrain exposed the car’s weaknesses and strengths and that helped them realize if they’ve chosen the right development path!

At the end of they day the car doesn’t look anywhere near as bad as last year’s car! It’s just that Red Bull refined their already fast car and now they’re quite far ahead! Mercedes is in a building phase like Aston Martin last year!

I think both the team and we as fans set our expectations quite high for Mercedes this year! Align that nobody expecting Red Bull to develop so much and you get the picture….

[harty71]

Agreed.

Except that Hamilton spelled it out that he doesn't feel the car...

Lewis said:

“I think if I had the set-up that George had, I would have been in a bit of a better position. So lots to work on, but there are positives to take away from it.”

Hamilton says the difference in car set-up between his and Russell’s cars was a simple case of the team splitting their set up approaches between their two drivers.

“It’s just there was like a 50/50 choice – I chose one way, he chose another,” Hamilton explained.

“More often than not, the way he went is the wrong one, but it just happened to work. I could only match his pace rather than be quicker this weekend. But I’ll work hard to make sure that two are in a better place next time.”

https://www.racefans.net/2023/03/19/ham ... ls-set-up/

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, sounds like excuses to me.

At the end of the day it's the drivers & engineers job to get the car in the right window, if they can't manage to do that then that's on them.

[mzso]

Poor from Bono - he should have told HAM to keep pushing in the event ALO has a 10s penalty.

HAM finished 10.4s away from ALO. 0.4s cost him P4.

They were expecting 5 secs.

Then they're stupider than their car looks because it's always 10s when the initial penalty is incorrectly served.. was only the last race when it last occured

Did it even occur before in F1? I don't recall such.

[mzso]

The problem I see with this approach is, if this abandoned concept / new upgrades are put in the car and they gain enough to be at front, they will be completely lost as they will be working on a new concept already but the old one is giving you enough gain. So, if they are fully commited on a new concept wouldn't be better to stop all old concept development and work on new concept even if it means few months delay. Otherwise I feel they will get confused and will not commit in one way or other, staying on a place with not clear picture

Why would they throw away that they already designed and tested? Just push it to manufacturing.

[Redragon]

The problem I see with this approach is, if this abandoned concept / new upgrades are put in the car and they gain enough to be at front, they will be completely lost as they will be working on a new concept already but the old one is giving you enough gain. So, if they are fully commited on a new concept wouldn't be better to stop all old concept development and work on new concept even if it means few months delay. Otherwise I feel they will get confused and will not commit in one way or other, staying on a place with not clear picture

Why would they throw away that they already designed and tested? Just push it to manufacturing.

I believe I answer this question on my comment.

[mkay]

The problem I see with this approach is, if this abandoned concept / new upgrades are put in the car and they gain enough to be at front, they will be completely lost as they will be working on a new concept already but the old one is giving you enough gain. So, if they are fully commited on a new concept wouldn't be better to stop all old concept development and work on new concept even if it means few months delay. Otherwise I feel they will get confused and will not commit in one way or other, staying on a place with not clear picture

Why would they throw away that they already designed and tested? Just push it to manufacturing.

IIRC, Elliott was saying that the manufacturing is the most expensive part of the development process. Doesn't make sense to spend all that money manufacturing a spec that most likely won't have any further use beyond this season.

Toto is a businessman and should realize that. Otherwise, their "new concept" talk is all PR, or they're willing to take the risk to unveil their new concept in testing next season which is risky particularly when there's nothing to race for this season.

[karana]

They were expecting 5 secs.

Then they're stupider than their car looks because it's always 10s when the initial penalty is incorrectly served.. was only the last race when it last occured

Did it even occur before in F1? I don't recall such.

It happened to Zhou last year in Jeddah. He got a Drive through penalty though.

[zibby43]

The problem I see with this approach is, if this abandoned concept / new upgrades are put in the car and they gain enough to be at front, they will be completely lost as they will be working on a new concept already but the old one is giving you enough gain. So, if they are fully commited on a new concept wouldn't be better to stop all old concept development and work on new concept even if it means few months delay. Otherwise I feel they will get confused and will not commit in one way or other, staying on a place with not clear picture

Why would they throw away that they already designed and tested? Just push it to manufacturing.

IIRC, Elliott was saying that the manufacturing is the most expensive part of the development process. Doesn't make sense to spend all that money manufacturing a spec that most likely won't have any further use beyond this season.

Toto is a businessman and should realize that. Otherwise, their "new concept" talk is all PR, or they're willing to take the risk to unveil their new concept in testing next season which is risky particularly when there's nothing to race for this season.

He did say that. That’s correct. The issue is, these parts have already entered the manufacturing process.

[AR3-GP]

Hamilton 20 pts
Russell 18 pts

Hamilton 20
Russell 21

Hamilton 20
Russell 18

Hamilton has the last laugh!

[pursue_one's]

Hamilton 20 pts
Russell 18 pts

Hamilton 20
Russell 21

Hamilton 20
Russell 18

Hamilton has the last laugh!

The FIA is such a joke...

[ringo]

Hamilton 20 pts
Russell 18 pts

Hamilton 20
Russell 21

Hamilton 20
Russell 18

Hamilton has the last laugh!

Yes... and so shall it be as the season progresses. just gotta let things play out rarher than Jump the gun at the earliest chance.