2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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dialtone
dialtone
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:32 pm

Convenient to use that lap for the gap to max lmao. That gap was over 4s right after LEC cleared Stroll.
The gap went up because Leclerc used DRS on the vegas strip to pass Stroll. Verstappen would have a corresponding lap with DRS when it was his turn to pass Stroll which would have reset that advantage that Leclerc got from it.
Of course, but somehow the gap didn’t go down because Stroll was slow earlier, it went down because Max is an ultrachampion. If he gains it’s all him against all odds in the best ever f1 car, if he loses it’s someone else’s unfair advantage.

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Charles: Today I didn’t leave anything on the table. I, honestly, maximised absolutely everything. Maybe the start? But then we got unlucky with the safety car. It was only 5 laps after we had boxed, which is the worst moment really for the tyres because you start to warm them up and then you cool them down, so it’s really difficult to restart the tyres and to rewarm them. Then we struggled for the second half of the race, which is a shame. But on the other hand, as much as I’m very tough with myself whenever I do a mistake, I recognise when I do a good job myself and today honestly was a really really good race and I’m really happy; both with the teams performance and my own performance so there wasn’t anything more on the table. It’s just unlucky that we got the safety car at that time.

Oleo
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:53 am
Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:51 am
Have to say, while Sainz had a decent race and salvaged a decent haul of points, his start was once again abysmal. His tendency to miss the brake points at start/restart this season is a continuation of poor starts from last year. He needs to improve, a lot.
Almost everyone missed the brake points on the first lap so I don't begrudge him for that today. His pace after that was questionable though. Consider where Ocon started. With Leclerc's pace, Sainz should have been 4th.
They started 12 vs 16
After corner 1 they were positioned 18 vs 8. Ocons starting position and poor start allowed him to go slowly into turn 1, where everyone got caught out thanks to oil and dirt and then pass everyone on the inside.

Not really a fair comparison, is it?
12 to 6 vs 16 to 4 = poor race
or
18 to 6 vs 8 to 4 = fine recovery drive.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Oleo wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:27 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:53 am
Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:51 am
Have to say, while Sainz had a decent race and salvaged a decent haul of points, his start was once again abysmal. His tendency to miss the brake points at start/restart this season is a continuation of poor starts from last year. He needs to improve, a lot.
Almost everyone missed the brake points on the first lap so I don't begrudge him for that today. His pace after that was questionable though. Consider where Ocon started. With Leclerc's pace, Sainz should have been 4th.
They started 12 vs 16
After corner 1 they were positioned 18 vs 8. Ocons starting position and poor start allowed him to go slowly into turn 1, where everyone got caught out thanks to oil and dirt and then pass everyone on the inside.

Not really a fair comparison, is it?
12 to 6 vs 16 to 4 = poor race
or
18 to 6 vs 8 to 4 = fine recovery drive.
Fine maybe Ocon is not so obvious, but vs Perez it is.

On lap 7 after the first SC, Perez and Sainz are nose to tail in 16th and 17th. By lap 24, Perez is leading the race by 10 seconds and Sainz is something like 13 seconds behind Perez in the same car that Leclerc was using to trouble Verstappen (give or take).

Did Sainz have mechanical issues? Even if he started P2, he wouldn't have been a threat to anyone of the podium finishers with his pace today.

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:35 pm
Oleo wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:27 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:53 am


Almost everyone missed the brake points on the first lap so I don't begrudge him for that today. His pace after that was questionable though. Consider where Ocon started. With Leclerc's pace, Sainz should have been 4th.
They started 12 vs 16
After corner 1 they were positioned 18 vs 8. Ocons starting position and poor start allowed him to go slowly into turn 1, where everyone got caught out thanks to oil and dirt and then pass everyone on the inside.

Not really a fair comparison, is it?
12 to 6 vs 16 to 4 = poor race
or
18 to 6 vs 8 to 4 = fine recovery drive.
Fine maybe Ocon is not so obvious, but vs Perez it is.

On lap 7 after the first SC, Perez and Sainz are nose to tail in 16th and 17th. By lap 24, Perez is leading the race by 10 seconds and Sainz is something like 13 seconds behind Perez in the same car that Leclerc was using to trouble Verstappen (give or take).

Did Sainz have mechanical issues? Even if he started P2, he wouldn't have been a threat to anyone of the podium finishers with his pace today.
No Sainz was just a bit slow today. Probably not helped by the engine temp behind other cars, but he didn't have the pace to keep up with the front runners. It was already quite evident in the FP3 race sim as well.

His performance in quali was flattered by 2 terrible laps by Leclerc in Q3. He could have been 0.4s faster.

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sainz had big overheating problems from lap 9. 300m LICO per lap at some stage and had to avoid tow. Lico really screwed his braking points, more laptime lost.

LM10
LM10
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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About the farce in FP1, I’m asking myself: Since the new chassis they replaced the destroyed one with was already a manufactured one (money was already spent on it), couldn’t Ferrari just have said “f it, we’re not going to build another one just for a single race left and risk losing a car in case of a major crash in Abu Dhabi”? Am I missing something?

Also, the PU was a used one from the pool, right? So no money lost there. If I’m not mistaken then it overall was the chassis, CE and ES. Duchessa had the figures somewhere around 1.5+ million dollars loss for Ferrari. Doesn’t this appear too much for chassis + CE + ES?

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Paa
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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dialtone wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:38 pm
Paa wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:19 pm

5 lap difference is huge here not small. It’s 10% of race distance and Max had to pit after 17 laps on mediums so 5 laps are 20-30% of tire life.

Max needed 3 laps to get out of LEC DRS with the tire advantage.

And to top it all off Max had tires that were 5 laps older and lived through a lot of traffic and certainly wouldn’t have been healthy after 30 laps on them towards the end of the race.
I don't know what would have happened, just jumping in saying that Max had to pit early in the first stint, due to graining, not wear. It is possible that he had 5 - 10 - 15 more laps in his mediums, we don't know how many. It is just impossible to guess his hard stint tyre life based on the first stint length. As he got no graining on the hard compound.
Yeah but that’s neither here nor there. Max ruined his tires by pushing to get past the 2s gap from Charles while in clean air, he didn’t ruin them because he was in traffic or whatnot. Normally in race he just takes off but here the balance of the car wasn’t as good as Ferrari. So it’s entirely reasonable to think that with older tires, even if hards, he might have struggled more than charles on newer.
My point is that the tyres were not ruined, graining is different than wear. That probably would have cleared in a few laps and then Max could have continue with normal speed. Red Bull decided it was better to box, than to wait for those few slow laps, which is ok. But the point is that classic wear logic not applies here. Eg: when he takes too much out of the tyres at the beginning, then gets slow by the end of the stint. Graining is not as straightforward.
It is very common that you have graining with one compound, but not with the other. It is even possible that Max wouldn't have got graining with mediums at the end with lighter car.

I'm just saying that Verstappen's early pitstop is not indication of higher tyre wear, especally not on the hard tyres.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this topic too much as this is not super important detail, so that's my last post in this topic.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sainz managed to tie Alonso for P4 in the WDC. That flew well under the radar given today... :lol:

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organic
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:29 pm
Sainz managed to tie Alonso for P4 in the WDC. That flew well under the radar given today... :lol:
I guess he's ahead because he's won a race

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:25 am
Champ conveniently slams into Russell, draws out SC and gets the win. Fair play :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well done Charles, they stole your win today.
Yeah it´s a world level conspiracy to harm your favourite driver :lol: :lol: :lol: #-o

This is racing Vanja, SCs are part of it, sometimes it harms, sometimes it aids. Tough luck for Leclerc today, not sure if he could have held Verstappen back as RBR was plenty fast with the hards, but that SC surely didn´t help Charles

It was a lot more harmful the drain cover destroying Sainz car and causing a 10 positions penalty tough, just because FIA can´t do their job and didn´t check the whole track before cars hit the track :wtf: #-o

That´s not only a mistake, it´s a huge safety issue wich could have been a lot more serious. This incident, on a normal world, should cause several claims and some firings, this is not a driver missing a braking point, this is FIA not assuring track safety before the GP, an unnacepatable mistake by any means, wich luckily, only caused some serious damage to one car, one team and specially one driver, but it could have caused serious damage to people, both drivers or spectators, and should cause some consequences... if we live on a normal world, wich is not the case #-o

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:51 am
Have to say, while Sainz had a decent race and salvaged a decent haul of points, his start was once again abysmal. His tendency to miss the brake points at start/restart this season is a continuation of poor starts from last year. He needs to improve, a lot.
What tendency? Can you please provide some example?


About tendencies... what about the tendecy from Leclerc to miss victories from pole? 23 poles, only provided 4 victories. Probably a record, few drivers miss so many victories from pole position :P

It was a great race by Leclerc tough, only that you seem to analyse Ferrari drivers from a completely different pov, quite positive for one of them, extremelly negative for the other...

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:42 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:53 am
Almost everyone missed the brake points on the first lap so I don't begrudge him for that today. His pace after that was questionable though. Consider where Ocon started. With Leclerc's pace, Sainz should have been 4th.
Sainz and Alonso are not almost everyone :lol:
Sainz, Alonso, Verstappen and Leclerc, all of them missed the braking point at T1. Not everyone obviously, but when so many top drivers miss same braking point, there must be something... wich was oil from some previous incident as someone did already explain

But don´t let reality stops your constant bashing to Sainz :roll:

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:29 pm
Sainz managed to tie Alonso for P4 in the WDC. That flew well under the radar given today... :lol:
If only he didn't throw 60+ point on his own... Would have been a P3 in WDC for Ferrari, which would align with overall car performance this year, even with the wall being a clown show more often than not...
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:29 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:29 pm
Sainz managed to tie Alonso for P4 in the WDC. That flew well under the radar given today... :lol:
If only he didn't throw 60+ point on his own... Would have been a P3 in WDC for Ferrari, which would align with overall car performance this year, even with the wall being a clown show more often than not...
Of course, the driver who ruined Ferrari chances to be 3rd team is the Ferrari driver with more points, period! :o :lol: #-o