Why were drivers placed more upright in 70's and 80's F1 cars compared to 60's cars?

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JordanMugen
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Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Why were drivers placed more upright in 70's and 80's F1 cars compared to 60's cars?

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We have an answer on why F1 drivers were reclined in the 1960's:
Chapman claimed to get his best ideas lying in the bath, which is pertinent as he is credited with inventing the reclined driver position that is still the norm in F1 today. The first car featuring this radical change was the ground breaking 1962 F1 car, the Lotus 25. At the time, the usual driving position was far more upright, a hangover from the days when the driver had to see over the front-mounted engine. But in this age of mid-engined F1 cars, that was no longer necessary.
https://automobilist.com/magazine/colin-chapman-story

Which makes sense, and obviously they have returned to this lying down position in modern day F1 cars from the late 1980's to present.

But then why did the drivers become placed more upright again in the 1970's and early 80's before being reclined again in the late 90's? :?:

1960's F1 car:
Image
Image

1970's F1 car:
Image

1980's F1 car:
Image

The driver is more upright in the 70's and early 80's cars, presuming raising the centre of gravity which is presumably not desirable.

Despite the Tyrrell being fitted with the same Cosworth DFV engine as the Lotus 49, with presumably the engine having the same profile and therefore same potential for the driver to be reclined similarly. I do see that the 1978 Tyrrell has taller intake trumpets than on the original Lotus 49 installation, but that hardly seems a reason to sit the driver more upright!

Could it be something to do with the very small front tyres (compared to rear) necessity a very rearwards weight distribution, and hence a very short wheelbase? Unlike the mid-60's when the stagger between the front and rear tyres was smaller?

CMSMJ1
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Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom

Re: Why were drivers placed more upright in 70's and 80's F1 cars compared to 60's cars?

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It would possibly have a bearing on the fuel tank position.

When did it become illegal to have side tanks?
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

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JordanMugen
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Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Re: Why were drivers placed more upright in 70's and 80's F1 cars compared to 60's cars?

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CMSMJ1 wrote:
10 Mar 2023, 18:05
It would possibly have a bearing on the fuel tank position.

When did it become illegal to have side tanks?
Excellent point!

Xwang
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Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:12

Re: Why were drivers placed more upright in 70's and 80's F1 cars compared to 60's cars?

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What I do not get is why from 80s to mid 90s the position moved to a more reclined one. One effect was the high nose, but I wonder if the current position is more or less safe than one with lower legs

CMSMJ1
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Re: Why were drivers placed more upright in 70's and 80's F1 cars compared to 60's cars?

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Xwang wrote:
11 Mar 2023, 14:36
What I do not get is why from 80s to mid 90s the position moved to a more reclined one. One effect was the high nose, but I wonder if the current position is more or less safe than one with lower legs
Ahh, but that then coincided with the refuelling regs - so the fuel tanks were smaller..allowing driver to lie down again!
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jjn9128
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Re: Why were drivers placed more upright in 70's and 80's F1 cars compared to 60's cars?

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Xwang wrote:
11 Mar 2023, 14:36
What I do not get is why from 80s to mid 90s the position moved to a more reclined one. One effect was the high nose, but I wonder if the current position is more or less safe than one with lower legs
I'm pretty sure stiffer chassis is the answer - can make the car longer for aero and get the COG down without reducing the torsional stiffness.

A reclined position is really bad for back injuries. Our core strength goes up the trunk, so the reclined position puts a lot of shear on the spine. That's part of the reason for a lot of the compression fractures suffered in motorsport. I believe there's a desire to sit the drivers up a bit more.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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