RB20 speculation

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Henk_v
Henk_v
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Re: RB20 speculation

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If we look at how the RB19 evolved over the year, is seams like there is an insatiable desire to ram more air onder the sidepod. RB converge to an optimum, but went as extreme as the chassis allowed.

The underbite lip has become almost a similar device as the W14 wing

This makes me wonder if we see a sidepod inlet that is more a NACA duct on the top of the sidepod than a real forward facing inlet.

Also the underbite lip may curve down to ram more air inder the sidepod or create outwash , like the W14 mirror strut wings do.

Cassius
Cassius
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Re: RB20 speculation

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SSScoffee wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:44 pm
I think the "Radical new design" is a tactic and the RB20 will look much like its predecessor, and following the same concept
It is not a tactic, it is clickbait by Filisetti.

IMHO it will be an evolution with opportunities in drag reduction (new rear wings for example) to keep their top speed advantage and improved suspension and aero to improve kerb and slow corner performance.

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organic
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Re: RB20 speculation

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From AMuS
The RB20 will be another evolution. Red Bull still sees plenty of potential for development with its concept, which everyone has now switched to. The development curve is still steep, according to rumours from Milton Keynes. With the early start to development, the world champion team hopes to come out of the starting blocks with plenty of momentum.

And yet there are stumbling blocks. Although the budget cap penalty has expired, it is likely to continue to have an impact to a certain extent in 2024. It is said that this will primarily affect the second package - i.e. the first upgrade package during the season.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rb20-2024/

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gandharva
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Re: RB20 speculation

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When the leader of the pack says the development curve is still steep... Let's see.

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chrisc90
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Re: RB20 speculation

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How much is offset against not bringing any upgrades though?

I mean if they were working on 2024 before the mid season break - then it’s a good chance any upgrade packages will have been worked on aswell.

I don’t think there’s much worry really. The RB20 competitors need to find a good chunk of laptime to start to trouble RB. However I guess we haven’t really seen the arb properly troubled at the start of a race except for COTA 23? And the early 22 season before Ferrari were caught exploiting a loophole which got closed and nerfed their car

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: RB20 speculation

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What scares me the most is Newey saying “the RB20 won’t be affected by winds”!

Oh God… :oops:
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

Giogio
Giogio
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Henk_v wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:48 am
If we look at how the RB19 evolved over the year, is seams like there is an insatiable desire to ram more air onder the sidepod. RB converge to an optimum, but went as extreme as the chassis allowed.

The underbite lip has become almost a similar device as the W14 wing

This makes me wonder if we see a sidepod inlet that is more a NACA duct on the top of the sidepod than a real forward facing inlet.

Also the underbite lip may curve down to ram more air inder the sidepod or create outwash , like the W14 mirror strut wings do.
what is underbite lip?

Cassius
Cassius
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Re: RB20 speculation

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How does that work? If cost cap penalty has an effect on the first in-season upgrades, they must have worked on them before October, but then why not already produce these for the first race?

In the article Toto also states they already decided to go for a completely new concept and car in the spring. They have been working on it just as early as RB. All the updates, like the Monaco sidepod and front suspension update, the new Silverstone front wing, and new floor at COTA were done as learning or prep for the w15.

This confirms my feeling that what Hamilton has been saying all year on RB's ability to start early is mainly for psychological warfare reasons. Toto is not worried about the timing of switching development time to the RB20, but about the knowledge advantage on ground-effect cars in general and their concept in particular that RB has built.

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organic
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Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: RB20 speculation

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Giogio wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:02 pm
Henk_v wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:48 am
If we look at how the RB19 evolved over the year, is seams like there is an insatiable desire to ram more air onder the sidepod. RB converge to an optimum, but went as extreme as the chassis allowed.

The underbite lip has become almost a similar device as the W14 wing

This makes me wonder if we see a sidepod inlet that is more a NACA duct on the top of the sidepod than a real forward facing inlet.

Also the underbite lip may curve down to ram more air inder the sidepod or create outwash , like the W14 mirror strut wings do.
what is underbite lip?
The sidepod inlet protrudes further forward on the lower leading edge (lower lip). This gives the appearance of "underbite". A lot of teams have adopted this as it is a way to improve control of flow to undercut and sidepod inlet. McLaren, AMR etc all use it now

Kyle (Ex-Mercedes aerodynamicist) covers the underbite inlet well here

Cassius
Cassius
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Re: RB20 speculation

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:55 pm
What scares me the most is Newey saying “the RB20 won’t be affected by winds”!

Oh God… :oops:
That comes from an unreliable source (Filisetti in the Gazzetta della Sport). Wind is not one of the main improvement points mentioned in interviews with any of the team members. Those are kerbs and slow corners.

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organic
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Cassius wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:11 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:55 pm
What scares me the most is Newey saying “the RB20 won’t be affected by winds”!

Oh God… :oops:
That comes from an unreliable source (Filisetti in the Gazzetta della Sport). Wind is not one of the main improvement points mentioned in interviews with any of the team members. Those are kerbs and slow corners.
SF23 was the car sensitive to wind in 2023

Matt2725
Matt2725
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Re: RB20 speculation

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:55 pm
What scares me the most is Newey saying “the RB20 won’t be affected by winds”!

Oh God… :oops:
I mean that just isn't physically possible. Sure it might be able to better handle crosswinds and gustier conditions, but I would wager a strong enough gust would kick the back end out, and send it round if not caught early.

KimiRai
KimiRai
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Re: RB20 speculation

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organic wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:36 pm
Keeping Perez makes me believe there is a similarly good car coming
Agreed

chrisc90 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:42 pm
However I guess we haven’t really seen the rb properly troubled at the start of a race except for COTA 23? And the early 22 season before Ferrari were caught exploiting a loophole which got closed and nerfed their car
The same thing seems to have happened this year, but with Aston Martin.

Henk_v
Henk_v
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Matt2725 wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:00 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:55 pm
What scares me the most is Newey saying “the RB20 won’t be affected by winds”!

Oh God… :oops:
I mean that just isn't physically possible. Sure it might be able to better handle crosswinds and gustier conditions, but I would wager a strong enough gust would kick the back end out, and send it round if not caught early.
To be fair, AN probably did not mean the wind would have no effect.

A gust that makes a car jolt or snap is a bother.

I bet is is just an extention of predictable robust aero. Keeping stuff attached etcetera. If a car behaves predictably in gusts and gives the right feedback in time to adjust, that would be a mile of improvement over a car that just suddenly snaps.

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continuum16
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Re: RB20 speculation

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Henk_v wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:48 am
If we look at how the RB19 evolved over the year, is seams like there is an insatiable desire to ram more air onder the sidepod. RB converge to an optimum, but went as extreme as the chassis allowed.

The underbite lip has become almost a similar device as the W14 wing

This makes me wonder if we see a sidepod inlet that is more a NACA duct on the top of the sidepod than a real forward facing inlet.

Also the underbite lip may curve down to ram more air inder the sidepod or create outwash , like the W14 mirror strut wings do.
I have also thought this. Since the initial RB18 the sidepod inlets have generally gotten skinnier (and wider) to the point where late-season RB19 was a true letterbox from a front view. I could see a further evolution being essentially a top inlet instead of a traditional front one.

I would find it incredibly ironic if the RB20 used the underbite lip as a pseudo- mid-wing like the W13 and W14 had, only with the SIPS on the floor allowing you to have greater geometric freedom.
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