2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Sieper
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Just goes to show how hard it is to make the right call. Imho checo opening up the steering wheel briefly when on the apex was cheeky. I think that got him the penalty.

Lewis round the outside at race start was also a bit too much imho. Gotta say he is extremely clever with that.

BanMeToo
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:03 am
Just goes to show how hard it is to make the right call. Imho checo opening up the steering wheel briefly when on the apex was cheeky. I think that got him the penalty.
I agree, didn't seem he was recovering an oversteer or understeer but positioning (clumsily) the car

Incognito
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Juzh wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:23 pm
Perez is fully in control of his car, it wasn't any sort of divebomb, and norris let the door open completely.
"You've got to remember that, when you dive from behind, when you go into the brakes late, you are not at full control of the car." - S Perez, post-race interview.

But what does Perez know, right?
Juzh wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:23 pm
entire stewards bunch is a whole load of amateur hour week in week out.
Odd how they seem to be fine when they are penalising everyone who isn't a Red Bull driver?

Incognito
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:03 am
Lewis round the outside at race start was also a bit too much imho. Gotta say he is extremely clever with that.
Hard to know if it was clever or not. First corner incidents apparently take c.17 minutes to establish fault, even when you are divebombing yourself and your opponent into an adjacent car park (see last week). Hamilton lost the place within c.3 minutes so there simply wasn't time to issue a penalty. Not much harm was done, it's not like he held Perez up for almost the entire opening stint and wrecked his tyres for corner after corner after corner, lap after lap after lap whilst keeping his own in pristine condition and controlling the pace of the race (that seems much 'cleverer').

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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I watched the Norris-Perez incident again. I think Perez locked the rear wheels (not locked, but they were under-rotating and causing the e-brake effect) so had to counter steer a bit which is why his line was wider than expected. This was happening to him a lot in the brake zones in Las Vegas.

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TFSA
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Incognito wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:17 am
Juzh wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:23 pm
Perez is fully in control of his car, it wasn't any sort of divebomb, and norris let the door open completely.
"You've got to remember that, when you dive from behind, when you go into the brakes late, you are not at full control of the car." - S Perez, post-race interview.

But what does Perez know, right?
Juzh wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:23 pm
entire stewards bunch is a whole load of amateur hour week in week out.
Odd how they seem to be fine when they are penalising everyone who isn't a Red Bull driver?
I remember Juzh arguing against Red Bull/Perez earlier this year on this very forum. Here's a few few examples:
#1
#2
#3
#4

Therefore, can we please stop all the bias accusations (whether it's for Red Bull, Mercedes or anyone else)? Even if the bias is obvious (which it is not in this case - it's just Juzh expressing his opinion about the incident), the accusations derails the discussions completely and breeds hostility.

It's sometimes at the point where I've been considering messaging the mods, and suggesting they intervene and tell everyone to pack it in (or start issuing warnings if necessary). It's seriously damaging for the discussion.

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langedweil
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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After watching it multiple times I'd still say that Per didn't overshoot and did make the corner with enough space for another car, and that Lando indeed steers in until they contacted. Above that, Lando even gained way more by cutting the corner than he would have when Per would have waited for the next straight.
Overall a bit silly penalty imho ..

I'd say the Alo-Ham incident was way way more dangerous .. and that led to a 'no further action'
HuggaWugga !

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TFSA
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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langedweil wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:04 am
After watching it multiple times I'd still say that Per didn't overshoot and did make the corner with enough space for another car
It's not an issue of whether Perez made enough space for the other car, but rather whether Perez compromised the other cars line.

Perez is entitled to fight side by side with Lando, but Lando - being the leading driver - is entitled to dictate the line, as long as he leaves Perez the required space. Perez isn't entitled to dictate the line when he's the overtaking driver. It's the same as Silverstone 21, where Max, being the leading driver, gets to dictate the line.

In addition, it was a very late lunge by Perez. He's late on the brakes (he braked at the same time as Norris, but being in a tow and carrying more speed, his braking action is reduced). Characteristics of a divebomb. That's also why Landos turnin looks a bit silly - he didn't expect Perez to take a wider line. But that's on Perez.

You could argue that Lando carries a bit of the blame - and i actually think he does. But a driver only needs to be predominantly at fault to attain a penalty.

langedweil wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:04 am
I'd say the Alo-Ham incident was way way more dangerous .. and that led to a 'no further action'
I've looked at it. It's definitely a knives edge, but Alonso was all the way to the right, was only on the brake very shortly and Hamilton was a bit back. Hamilton wasn't obviously prepared for it, but he might have pounced and just cut past him.

I don't think there was any major danger with the distance between the cars at the time. If they had collided, it would have been a different story - but they didn't. And that's also a major factor. A crash doesn't have to be dangerous to be a problem - it's also a consideration of the fact that drivers shouldn't be colliding on track and ruin each others races.

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falonso81
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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It's a yoke.

DDopey
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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TFSA wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:13 am
langedweil wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:04 am
After watching it multiple times I'd still say that Per didn't overshoot and did make the corner with enough space for another car
It's not an issue of whether Perez made enough space for the other car, but rather whether Perez compromised the other cars line.

Perez is entitled to fight side by side with Lando, but Lando - being the leading driver - is entitled to dictate the line, as long as he leaves Perez the required space. Perez isn't entitled to dictate the line when he's the overtaking driver. It's the same as Silverstone 21, where Max, being the leading driver, gets to dictate the line.

In addition, it was a very late lunge by Perez. He's late on the brakes (he braked at the same time as Norris, but being in a tow and carrying more speed, his braking action is reduced). Characteristics of a divebomb. That's also why Landos turnin looks a bit silly - he didn't expect Perez to take a wider line. But that's on Perez.

You could argue that Lando carries a bit of the blame - and i actually think he does. But a driver only needs to be predominantly at fault to attain a penalty.
This. Lando is allowed his racing line when keeping enough room. It was up to Perez to avoid the collision, which he did not do.

101FlyingDutchman
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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Juzh wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:23 pm
Looking at perez norris stuff once again, it's norris who should get two penalties. One for intentionally turning into an opponent, second one for cutting the track and gaining an advantage. Perez is fully in control of his car, it wasn't any sort of divebomb, and norris let the door open completely. There's also still space on the outside of that corner for norris to occupy. Worst stewarding I've seen since a long time, and then modern FIA seemingly has authority over drivers as if they're little babies, calling perez in to defend himself. He should tell em to go places where sun doesnt shine tbh. Gunther is absolutely right, entire stewards bunch is a whole load of amateur hour week in week out.
You post many great things mate but that’s probably the worst call you’ve made on here. The stewards absolutely called this correctly. It’s pretty plain to see PER went wide, not in control of the car momentarily

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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I also see it more on Perez. Perez did the proper overtake on the next lap. Perez's issues are annoying because it's like a fly in the soup of an otherwise fantastic season by RB and they deserved a double podium and photo op to send the season out in style. Perez made a mess of it by breaking track limits in qualifying and then having to come from so far back in the race.

cplchanb
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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wow only 22 pages for this race thread. a new record low....
speaks volumes or lack there of on the quality of the race.

mendis
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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cplchanb wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:32 am
wow only 22 pages for this race thread. a new record low....
speaks volumes or lack there of on the quality of the race.
Quality of a race never dictated the length of a race thread here. It's always a controversy that elongated it. A good fight between two cars or more isn't enough to drag the thread.

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Wouter
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Re: 2023 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Nov 24 - 26

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These drivers do the rookie test:

Red Bull Racing: Jake Dennis
Mercedes: Frederik Vesti
Ferrari: Robert Shwartzman
McLaren: Patricio O'Ward
Aston Martin: Felipe Drugovich
Alpine: Jack Doohan
Williams: Franco Colapinto & Zak O'Sullivan
AlphaTauri: Ayumu Iwasa
Alfa Romeo: NNB
Haas: Oliver Bearman

These drivers do the tire test:

Red Bull Racing: Sergio Perez
Mercedes: George Russell
Ferrari: Carlos Sainz & Charles Leclerc
McLaren: NNB
Aston Martin: Lance Stroll & Fernando Alonso
Alpine: Esteban Ocon
Williams: Alexander Albo
AlphaTauri: Daniel Ricciardo & Yuki Tsunoda
Alfa Romeo: NNB
Haas: Pietro Fittipaldi

The Power of Dreams!