2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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LionsHeart
LionsHeart
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 9:11 pm
We can dream.

A very strange chassis, if you don't look at the livery :D The front wing is from Ferrari, the sidepods are from someone I don’t know, maybe Ferrari, the front suspension seems to be from McLaren, but it looks like it was Red Bull from last year. The input channels to the sidepods are also closer to Ferrari. But it is not exactly. Floor edge from RB 18.

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mwillems
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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LionsHeart wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 9:39 pm
mwillems wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 9:11 pm
We can dream.

A very strange chassis, if you don't look at the livery :D The front wing is from Ferrari, the sidepods are from someone I don’t know, maybe Ferrari, the front suspension seems to be from McLaren, but it looks like it was Red Bull from last year. The input channels to the sidepods are also closer to Ferrari. But it is not exactly. Floor edge from RB 18.
I just like the colours lol
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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mwillems
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 9:23 pm
mwillems wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 9:10 pm
Both race and Qualification should have equally important improvements. Pace is one side of the equation if the car is able to look after the tyres better and allow the drivers to push the car to a lower delta in the race. In Qualification the drivers are already pushing to what they think is the limit. The improvement of the car should help the drivers push the car to the limit and not go over the limit and therefore increase the likelihood that we can get the optimum laps in Q3.
It will be track dependent, but if what has been addressed with the upgrades is platform stability, there will be a larger impact on race pace than qualifying… In qualifying, some of those instabilities are masked by stickier tires and going to the limit… The additional confidence of an stable platform will reduce hesitation from the drivers during turning / throttle application, this adds up throughout a lap, beyond what better tire management (longer stints at high pace) gives you… I expect the improvements to be higher during the race than during qualifying.
I'm not sure what you mean by stability in this context. The operating window has been opened I think, and then there is the attempt to be more efficient and drive more air over and under the sidepods. But the stability at Miami came I think in part from the team setting that car up with ride height, camber, suspensions settings etc that allowed them to ensure the car was very low and flat to the ground in low speed corners.

A better operating window for the car, and a car that behaves better in general will improve Q to varying degrees at each track. Of course a track with more high speed corners will make that improvement less prevalent in Q. And a track with low abrasion will make the pace benefit less prevalent in the race. But the point I make is that you will, over a season, see important improvements in the Race and in Qualification.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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Xero
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:11 pm
Location: Moray, Scotland

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 10:07 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 9:23 pm
mwillems wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 9:10 pm
Both race and Qualification should have equally important improvements. Pace is one side of the equation if the car is able to look after the tyres better and allow the drivers to push the car to a lower delta in the race. In Qualification the drivers are already pushing to what they think is the limit. The improvement of the car should help the drivers push the car to the limit and not go over the limit and therefore increase the likelihood that we can get the optimum laps in Q3.
It will be track dependent, but if what has been addressed with the upgrades is platform stability, there will be a larger impact on race pace than qualifying… In qualifying, some of those instabilities are masked by stickier tires and going to the limit… The additional confidence of an stable platform will reduce hesitation from the drivers during turning / throttle application, this adds up throughout a lap, beyond what better tire management (longer stints at high pace) gives you… I expect the improvements to be higher during the race than during qualifying.
I'm not sure what you mean by stability in this context. The operating window has been opened I think, and then there is the attempt to be more efficient and drive more air over and under the sidepods. But the stability at Miami came I think in part from the team setting that car up with ride height, camber, suspensions settings etc that allowed them to ensure the car was very low and flat to the ground in low speed corners.

A better operating window for the car, and a car that behaves better in general will improve Q to varying degrees at each track. Of course a track with more high speed corners will make that improvement less prevalent in Q. And a track with low abrasion will make the pace benefit less prevalent in the race. But the point I make is that you will, over a season, see important improvements in the Race and in Qualification.
You're both right. Platform stability is a broader term for how reliably the car complies over a wider range of scenarios, rather than outright handling stability. McLaren have improved both, with a larger performance operating window, but a more predictable one. It will breed driver confidence to push harder in both qually and race, and manage the tyres with greater precision. The difference from last year was the performance was there at times, but the platform stability wasn't. It's amazing to see how they've followed through with addressing it so far, factory is cooking at the moment.

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BMMR61
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2021 12:02 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia.

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Lando's last 25 laps at Miami, driving away from Max - an example of a good driver with a stable platform!!!
1:31.157, 1:31.289, 1:31.391, 1:31.133, 1:31.074, 1:31.134, 1:31.192, 1:31.222, 1:31.059, 1:31.340, 1:31.066, 1:31.180, 1:31.068, 1:31.352, 1:31.423, 1:31.135, 1:31.177, 1:31.227, 1:31.080, 1:31.244, 1:31.251, 1:31.276, 1:30.980, 1:31.040, 1:31.575.

Interestingly Oscar's lap times over the first 25 laps behind Max were almost as consistent, plus evidence of him having looked after the tyres - his quickest were his last few before pitting. Not for the first time the MCL38 appeared to use it's tyres well relative to the opposition. I'm quietly optimistic about Imola, though not as much as Will Joseph, while trying to keep my expectations middling. I did the same pre-Miami with the promise of a major upgrade (less than Austria) which turned out to look like Austria!

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mwillems
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Xero wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 12:56 am
mwillems wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 10:07 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 9:23 pm


It will be track dependent, but if what has been addressed with the upgrades is platform stability, there will be a larger impact on race pace than qualifying… In qualifying, some of those instabilities are masked by stickier tires and going to the limit… The additional confidence of an stable platform will reduce hesitation from the drivers during turning / throttle application, this adds up throughout a lap, beyond what better tire management (longer stints at high pace) gives you… I expect the improvements to be higher during the race than during qualifying.
I'm not sure what you mean by stability in this context. The operating window has been opened I think, and then there is the attempt to be more efficient and drive more air over and under the sidepods. But the stability at Miami came I think in part from the team setting that car up with ride height, camber, suspensions settings etc that allowed them to ensure the car was very low and flat to the ground in low speed corners.

A better operating window for the car, and a car that behaves better in general will improve Q to varying degrees at each track. Of course a track with more high speed corners will make that improvement less prevalent in Q. And a track with low abrasion will make the pace benefit less prevalent in the race. But the point I make is that you will, over a season, see important improvements in the Race and in Qualification.
You're both right. Platform stability is a broader term for how reliably the car complies over a wider range of scenarios, rather than outright handling stability. McLaren have improved both, with a larger performance operating window, but a more predictable one. It will breed driver confidence to push harder in both qually and race, and manage the tyres with greater precision. The difference from last year was the performance was there at times, but the platform stability wasn't. It's amazing to see how they've followed through with addressing it so far, factory is cooking at the moment.
"Platform" makes me think specifically of the chassis and mechanical settings, and the platform on which the aero operates that's why I was unsure of the context with the update which was largely Aero related. The aero I hope is more stable with a bigger operating window, and I think the update looks to addressing this a little. But I'm unsure at this point how much the setup flattered the low speed improvement.

But ultimately you make the same point which is that a less edgy car will help in Qualy and Race.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

LionsHeart
LionsHeart
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 7:13 am
Xero wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 12:56 am
mwillems wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 10:07 pm


I'm not sure what you mean by stability in this context. The operating window has been opened I think, and then there is the attempt to be more efficient and drive more air over and under the sidepods. But the stability at Miami came I think in part from the team setting that car up with ride height, camber, suspensions settings etc that allowed them to ensure the car was very low and flat to the ground in low speed corners.

A better operating window for the car, and a car that behaves better in general will improve Q to varying degrees at each track. Of course a track with more high speed corners will make that improvement less prevalent in Q. And a track with low abrasion will make the pace benefit less prevalent in the race. But the point I make is that you will, over a season, see important improvements in the Race and in Qualification.
You're both right. Platform stability is a broader term for how reliably the car complies over a wider range of scenarios, rather than outright handling stability. McLaren have improved both, with a larger performance operating window, but a more predictable one. It will breed driver confidence to push harder in both qually and race, and manage the tyres with greater precision. The difference from last year was the performance was there at times, but the platform stability wasn't. It's amazing to see how they've followed through with addressing it so far, factory is cooking at the moment.
"Platform" makes me think specifically of the chassis and mechanical settings, and the platform on which the aero operates that's why I was unsure of the context with the update which was largely Aero related. The aero I hope is more stable with a bigger operating window, and I think the update looks to addressing this a little. But I'm unsure at this point how much the setup flattered the low speed improvement.

But ultimately you make the same point which is that a less edgy car will help in Qualy and Race.
I support both opinions: an increase in stability gives an increase in speed in qualifying and the race. In a race, the increase is higher, since not only the full tanks, which are emptied over the course of the race, come into play, but also the control of tire wear.

SmallSoldier correctly said that in qualifying there is less benefit in terms of growth, since it is compensated by soft tires. Last year we saw that McLaren could do one fast lap, but quickly fell down in the races. It was not only a matter of rapid tire wear, but the control itself. The balance was very far from the optimal level, which did not allow Lando and Oscar to get the most out of the car without trying to push the limits of the chassis.

If the team has relatively fast equipment, but the balance is not optimal. It is enough to change the balance without changing overall performance to gain extra seconds in the race. Simply because it is easier for drivers to cope and control the chassis in corners.

The good thing about this update is that it little by little improves all the characteristics of the chassis. Therefore, the total increase adds up and gives a noticeable gain in speed.

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mwillems
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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LionsHeart wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 8:49 am
mwillems wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 7:13 am
Xero wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 12:56 am


You're both right. Platform stability is a broader term for how reliably the car complies over a wider range of scenarios, rather than outright handling stability. McLaren have improved both, with a larger performance operating window, but a more predictable one. It will breed driver confidence to push harder in both qually and race, and manage the tyres with greater precision. The difference from last year was the performance was there at times, but the platform stability wasn't. It's amazing to see how they've followed through with addressing it so far, factory is cooking at the moment.
"Platform" makes me think specifically of the chassis and mechanical settings, and the platform on which the aero operates that's why I was unsure of the context with the update which was largely Aero related. The aero I hope is more stable with a bigger operating window, and I think the update looks to addressing this a little. But I'm unsure at this point how much the setup flattered the low speed improvement.

But ultimately you make the same point which is that a less edgy car will help in Qualy and Race.
I support both opinions: an increase in stability gives an increase in speed in qualifying and the race. In a race, the increase is higher, since not only the full tanks, which are emptied over the course of the race, come into play, but also the control of tire wear.

SmallSoldier correctly said that in qualifying there is less benefit in terms of growth, since it is compensated by soft tires. Last year we saw that McLaren could do one fast lap, but quickly fell down in the races. It was not only a matter of rapid tire wear, but the control itself. The balance was very far from the optimal level, which did not allow Lando and Oscar to get the most out of the car without trying to push the limits of the chassis.

If the team has relatively fast equipment, but the balance is not optimal. It is enough to change the balance without changing overall performance to gain extra seconds in the race. Simply because it is easier for drivers to cope and control the chassis in corners.

The good thing about this update is that it little by little improves all the characteristics of the chassis. Therefore, the total increase adds up and gives a noticeable gain in speed.
The point I make about qualifying with a more stable car is less about outright pace and more about the consistency with which you can extract the maximum. You might not gain much more pace in a Qualifying lap, but if you reliably extract closer to the limit when the pressure is on then that is very important. Starting in front of or behind Verstappen is very important for tyre life, clean air, strategy and for not having an accident. Having a car that will allow you to get that P1 level lap in more often is critical. A peaky Saturday can very easily ruin the Sunday even if you have a very fast race car.

This is only point I make back to SmallSoldier, that the Qualification benefits are just as important from this update, if it has helped make the car more stable. Focussing on the Race benefits only isn't representative.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

Tomsky
Tomsky
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Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:41 am

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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a small wing

LionsHeart
LionsHeart
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 9:28 am
LionsHeart wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 8:49 am
mwillems wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 7:13 am


"Platform" makes me think specifically of the chassis and mechanical settings, and the platform on which the aero operates that's why I was unsure of the context with the update which was largely Aero related. The aero I hope is more stable with a bigger operating window, and I think the update looks to addressing this a little. But I'm unsure at this point how much the setup flattered the low speed improvement.

But ultimately you make the same point which is that a less edgy car will help in Qualy and Race.
I support both opinions: an increase in stability gives an increase in speed in qualifying and the race. In a race, the increase is higher, since not only the full tanks, which are emptied over the course of the race, come into play, but also the control of tire wear.

SmallSoldier correctly said that in qualifying there is less benefit in terms of growth, since it is compensated by soft tires. Last year we saw that McLaren could do one fast lap, but quickly fell down in the races. It was not only a matter of rapid tire wear, but the control itself. The balance was very far from the optimal level, which did not allow Lando and Oscar to get the most out of the car without trying to push the limits of the chassis.

If the team has relatively fast equipment, but the balance is not optimal. It is enough to change the balance without changing overall performance to gain extra seconds in the race. Simply because it is easier for drivers to cope and control the chassis in corners.

The good thing about this update is that it little by little improves all the characteristics of the chassis. Therefore, the total increase adds up and gives a noticeable gain in speed.
The point I make about qualifying with a more stable car is less about outright pace and more about the consistency with which you can extract the maximum. You might not gain much more pace in a Qualifying lap, but if you reliably extract closer to the limit when the pressure is on then that is very important. Starting in front of or behind Verstappen is very important for tyre life, clean air, strategy and for not having an accident. Having a car that will allow you to get that P1 level lap in more often is critical. A peaky Saturday can very easily ruin the Sunday even if you have a very fast race car.

This is only point I make back to SmallSoldier, that the Qualification benefits are just as important from this update, if it has helped make the car more stable. Focussing on the Race benefits only isn't representative.
You are talking about simple and understandable things. All this is true and logical. Therefore, I say again that I agree with both opinions.

LionsHeart
LionsHeart
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Tomsky wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 10:29 am

a small wing
Hooray! If this continues throughout the weekend, then there will be complete order at maximum speed. There are weather forecast updates. A chance of showers on Sunday and a slight chance of showers on Saturday. Sunday will be the coolest day of the race weekend.

Jeddah Specification. The edge of the upper flap is curled. In Australia it is cut at 45 degrees.

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SilviuAgo
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:08 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Look who's watching :))))



Meanwhile, McLaren is securing also the future:

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... =2024-news


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mwillems
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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It's pretty satisfying that Hamilton takes a moment to take in the Mclaren.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

MTudor
MTudor
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:24 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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For me the best part of the updates is that we protect the tyres in the race,which was a huge deficit last year after the updates that were very good.
I think it's going to be an EBAY sponsorship not a MASTERCARD one,like it was speculated.

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mwillems
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Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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MTudor wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 8:19 am
For me the best part of the updates is that we protect the tyres in the race,which was a huge deficit last year after the updates that were very good.
I think it's going to be an EBAY sponsorship not a MASTERCARD one,like it was speculated.
The tyres did look good, but they weren't challenged that hard in the race. An important sign is the heat we were getting into the softs in Qualifying, which suggests there is still work to be done.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit