BMMR61 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 10:55 pm
LionsHeart wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 2:50 pm
BMMR61 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:46 pm
A few comments based on the discussions currently raging here;
The measured downforce at Woking is real, translating that to lap times is much more a matter of educated guesswork. (-0.4 per lap in qualifying or in the Grand Prix? Plus, it all changes at different circuits.)
Nice what Will Jacob says, probably received a "quieten down" from Stella. Meanwhile Zak is on the foghorn about everything from the car, Stella, the drivers, and Verstappen, really should tone it down a bit, there are journos around looking for sensational snippets.
I remain convinced the new spec gives the front end a noticeable bite, viewed at normal speed. I think LionsHeart was denying this while at the same breath saying the car was getting to the apex just fine. Huh? (sorry if I attributed it to the wrong person)
Because the MCL60(B spec) never ran at Miami (unlike Suzuka) we can't get a meaningful read on the progress of the MCL38, we do know it has made a significant improvement. Beware of journos who only a few weeks ago had us matched with Aston who are now all over McLaren. To avoid false optimism we need to see the progress over several weekends, as someone else noted. FWIW I think Will is likely on the mark with his comment. Miami was one of our very worst tracks. Last year's Austria upgrade result was greeted with "we need to wait until Silverstone" then "Hungary will be a severe test of the slow corner traits of the car". I'd like to think we will mirror that stage of last year's championship. Whatever, Red Bull, more particularly Max, will be hard to put under pressure, let alone knock off.
I'm not quite sure what context you're singling me out in. I've written a lot in the last week about what I've seen in the changes in chassis behavior.
You have collected everything in a heap, and the words of the team members, and my words, and the words of the other guys who are sitting here. And, also the words of some journalists. I was just making some assumptions about what the real increase would be. I pointed out that one source indicated these same 0.4 seconds. How did they determine this? These are not my words, but they were part of my assumption even before the car left on Friday.
This speculation about winning a lap in seconds can go on forever until someone from the team officially reports it.
What I can see is that compared to the same Miami 2023, when the chassis was without major updates, the overall behavior is very similar. But the chassis stands confidently on the road, you can clearly see that there is more grip on the road, there is no slipping when entering or exiting corners.
I will repeat, I don’t know how many times, there is a big change in the passage of turn 17. The late braking phase and apex entry are radically different and unlike what the McL60B then did. McLaren couldn't do this before, but now he can.
You noted that the Spec B did not perform here in Miami, but this does not matter, because with the updates last year they only added downforce. Behavior, balance and handling remain the same. So I don't agree with you here.
I will add: it is difficult for me to determine this sharpness in the front end. If we compare the current sharpness with what the RB19 had, then the Red Bull chassis of last year is still very far away. It had a sharp front end. The McLaren McL38B now has rather just neutral handling. There is no understeer when entering corners. But there is no sharpness either.
Hey LionsHeart, no need for defensiveness. I agree with most of your comments, in my summation the only part that referenced you was regards understeer. I still feel your original post comment that the balance of the car hadn't fundamentally changed looked to be contradicted by another that Norris was hitting the apexes. My earlier post stated that I COULD see a front end attitude early in the weekend that really made me sit up and take notice, the car appeared to have front end bite and I think this is what could be described as "balance". Do you not agree and if so in what regard? I always find your comments here among the more incisive so I struggle with this apparent contradiction. We know the McLaren has had, particularly in long slow speed corners, this difficulty which also wrecks the front tyres. It looks to me that the new front wing, and probably other components, targeted this characteristic and largely achieved it. Now I know that my comment contradicts in a way what Will Joseph said about the purpose of the upgrades recently but the results, under the microscope, seem to point to it giving great gains in front limits. At a low speed dominant track the upgrade was an unmitigated success, in hot conditions that don't normally favour us.
Thanks for the detailed comment. Now at least I understand what a bite is.
I will explain why some of my comments may be contradictory. In general, I do not have telemetry, and I do not see the speed at the entrance and exit of turns. This would seriously help to see real progress. The human eye is unable to see a 1 second difference in the pace of a car. 2 seconds from the circle is still possible.
In the first part of the race, comparing two onboards a year apart, it is clear that the balance in slow turns has improved, the understeer has gone away to a greater extent, and there is no slipping of the front end at the entrance to the turn.
In medium-speed and fast corners there is no difference in balance, with the only exception being that the chassis now corners more stable. There is more downforce, air flows do not once again break off the aerodynamic surfaces.
Lando goes through turn 17 completely differently, everything looks the same as what Carlos Sainz did in Australia 2024 at the entrance to turn 11. There, Ferrari had the opportunity to brake much later than the others, get to an early apex, turn the chassis faster and exit the corner optimally, albeit with a loss of time.
In the case of the McL38B, you can see that the braking point does not change at Turn 17, but the late braking phase changes a lot. Lando couldn’t do this last season, now he can start turning without fully releasing the brakes, getting to the apex early, as if cutting off and narrowing the turn. It then actively but smoothly turns the chassis and accelerates very efficiently out of the corner.
In the rest of the slow turns I didn’t see such a difference, with the exception of turn 11. That's why I said the overall balance sheet looks very similar. And I can generally guess why this is so. On the Miami 2023 onboard you can see that in turn 12 Lando has no problems with the front end slipping, but he takes a little less speed into the turn, saving his tires, then he had to drive 52 laps on hard tires.
This moment could also affect the balance and stability, but if you remember all the onboards over the past year, and compare only with Miami 2024, then Lando for the first time drove the car smoothly, calmly, without mistakes, not trying to attack on the edge, but simply drove, being confident in its behavior and in the fact that there is no need to squeeze all 146% out of the car.
Returning to the controversial point: you just need to wait for those tracks where the overall tire wear is higher, then the overall balance of the updated chassis will be clear. Since tire wear is low in Miami, this track is not representative. So I'll just watch it.
To simplify, yes, the front end has become stronger, it grips the road better, in slow corners there is generally noticeable progress, but in medium-speed and fast corners the balance is generally the same. Simply higher stability and control.
