Cosworth & Engine Freeze

[bibi]

Hi,

Now that Cosworth is retiring from F1 (at least for next year) can they still develop their engine without being subject to engine freeze rule? If so they would be in a considerable advantage if they re-enter F1. This also holds for any new manufacturer that could come into F1? Do you know the rules about this?

[ketanpaul]

thats interesting..........maybe manchild can enlighten us on this one

[Steven]

actually yes that will be possible.
However, while development aimed for reliability and driveability makes sense, any other investment will be useless. The FIA stated that any new engine that would be introduced after the engine freeze will be put to a test to see if it's not far superior to other engines.

Only such a fair test would make sense, as obviously technology is advancing, while in F1 the engines will remain the same for quite some time.

It's in fact interesting to think about how the FIA will handle it, since strict appliance of this rule will prevent any other engine to come into F1 with an advantage, while their engine may well be better anyway.

[pRo]

Do you know the rules about this?

Even without knowing the rules (do they even exist yet?), it's obvious that a "newbie" can't have different rules than the existing ones.

[geoclassic]

Does anyone know what engine Prodrive will be using? When do they start, 2008?

Update, after posting this, I went to Prodrive's website, http://www.prodrive.com. They do start in 08. It's a pretty generic site when it comes to their F1 involvement. Maybe someone has heard in the grapevine.

[Tom]

Surley Cossworth can make their engine as reliable as possible without having any better performance. should be interesting, they'll gave a whole year and a half to perfect it.

[frozen_pea]

HI

I believe with prodrive, they have been working with McLaren Mercedes to get an engine deal, and possibly be a 'B' team while they are getting set up in their first few years. So getting old McLaren chassis, information, and double the testing data. Also the potential race seat for a rookie...

Nothing for this has been confirmed, and it was something that Dave Richards said he would consider.

As for Cosworth, I know they are looking at getting back on the grid in 2008.
There was an article about it in Autosport last week. I believe they may still submit an engine design so they can come back into the sport.

[DaveKillens]

You have to take into consideration the business side of Cosworth regarding F1. When it was announced they would not have an F1 engine program in '07, a lot of people were laid off. That division was shut down.
So for Cosworth to re-enter Formula One, they would have to start up a new division for Formula One engines. That would take time, money, people, and resources. And considering their performance at the finish of this season, it's not going to be easy to sign any teams, or to attract investment.
In the near future, Cosworth wil have to focus on present and planned projects to stay viable as a company. Personally, I just don't see how or when they could gather the money and resources to get back into the Formula One engine business.
It's a shame that such a name as Cosworth will most likely never get back into Formula One. With their expertise and history, sadly it's another sad tale of the times changing the game.

[DaveKillens]

You have to take into consideration the business side of Cosworth regarding F1. When it was announced they would not have an F1 engine program in '07, a lot of people were laid off. That division was shut down.
So for Cosworth to re-enter Formula One, they would have to start up a new division for Formula One engines. That would take time, money, people, and resources. And considering their performance at the finish of this season, it's not going to be easy to sign any teams, or to attract investment.
In the near future, Cosworth wil have to focus on present and planned projects to stay viable as a company. Personally, I just don't see how or when they could gather the money and resources to get back into the Formula One engine business.
It's a shame that such a name as Cosworth will most likely never get back into Formula One. With their expertise and history, sadly it's another sad tale of the times changing the game.

[DaveKillens]

You have to take into consideration the business side of Cosworth regarding F1. When it was announced they would not have an F1 engine program in '07, a lot of people were laid off. That division was shut down.
So for Cosworth to re-enter Formula One, they would have to start up a new division for Formula One engines. That would take time, money, people, and resources. And considering their performance at the finish of this season, it's not going to be easy to sign any teams, or to attract investment.
In the near future, Cosworth wil have to focus on present and planned projects to stay viable as a company. Personally, I just don't see how or when they could gather the money and resources to get back into the Formula One engine business.
It's a shame that such a name as Cosworth will most likely never get back into Formula One. With their expertise and history, sadly it's another sad tale of the times changing the game.

[manchild]

Cosworth is out for good - the text on T-shirt of their team member says it. As Dave said they might return one day but starting almost from scratch.

[Rob W]

All the more reason the engine freeze regulations will have to be repealed eventually - sooner rather than later I hope.

It will be so hard to police this. One team could make small improvements to their design which could go unnoticed by the FIA and which add enough HP/reliability to give it a big boost for a couple of races before teams start mud-flinging about favouritism (again) by the FIA.

Rob W

[nudge]

im a little confused as to just what homologation means in this case. I have heard from very good sources that engine development is still going on.
Im guessing that the 'freeze' is on the block and head, but that much of the guts of the engine is still free to development.



EDIT: found the answer to the mystery...seems they were allowed to nominate a 'tuning list' from the engines logged at the end of the season.

[dp35]

This engine rule is a joke, because it will be impossible to enforce.

About new engine manufacturers, they would naturally be at an advantage, especially after two or three years have passed. Even if their only advantage would be in reliablity, that's still an advantage. If the FIA tests a new engine for comparative performance, how easy would it be for the engineers to detune it for this test?

Perhaps this loophole in the new F1 engine rules will attract some new suppliers, such as Porsche, Audi, VW, etc. And, what if companies like Acura, Lexus, Maserati, Dodge, Maybach, etc decide to build F1 engines, do they get to start with a clean slate too?

[Saribro]

And, what if companies like Acura, Lexus, Maserati, Dodge, Maybach, etc decide to build F1 engines, do they get to start with a clean slate too?

Honda, Toyota, Ferrari(Fiat), Mercedes and Mercedes are already building F1 engines :p.