Ferrari Rear Wheel Lip

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Carbon
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Ferrari Rear Wheel Lip

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I noticed that Ferrari ran with a very deep rear wheel lip on their first stint, then after pitting, both Schu and Massa came out with a greatly reduced depth of rear wheel lip.

Any ideas why the change in depth, and the lack of consistency?

Fan Solo
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The bigger lipped version made thier brakes to hot ;)
MMIAFN

DaveKillens
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Gee, imagine that. Shu posted the fastest speeds in practice and qualifying. Then, a device supposed to make the brake airflow better has heating problems? The irony.

Fan Solo
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DaveKillens wrote:Gee, imagine that. Shu posted the fastest speeds in practice and qualifying. Then, a device supposed to make the brake airflow better has heating problems? The irony.
Its not lost on me thats for sure!! I guess it's my cynical view on anything Red these days but hey, numbers dont lie.
MMIAFN

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mini696
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:34 am

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I have wondered the same thing, I assumed it was because they required the "quick heat" for quali, and initial laps in the race, but not during the race.

DaveKillens
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The facts don't lie, that device sure helped in top end speed, but didn't help in rear brake cooling.......... make your own conclusions.

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pRo
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Do the cars get inspected between quali and race? Or the parts, including tyres and whatever are on them, taken off during race?

If not, what's stopping other teams from installing whatever they wish for the quali and then swapping them out during the race? :roll: I'm sure the whole bodywork could be changed during pitstop, if it makes a big enough difference and is designed so.
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Ignis Fatuus
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I thought they had to change it for identical ones during a race?
“It’s frustrating, but we had the pace. It wasn’t bad luck. It was a reflection of our intensity of development.” - Ron Dennis

manchild
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Last time I inguired about this bhallg2k quoted me FIA regualtions that give the right to race director to allow changes on braking system if weather conditions change during the race. However, during THIS race there was no change of weather conditions at all.
bhallg2k wrote:
manchild wrote:How could Schuey’s Ferrari start the race with rings/covers on rear wheels (officially ducts and part of braking system) and finish race legally without them when ducts as a part of braking system are subject of post race scrutinizing? Ducts can’t be *found on car and inspected in “Parc Ferme” and they were on car when car pre-race inspections.

*Please don’t tell me that Ferrari can give them to FIA from garage because that is completely against whole idea of “Parc Ferme” – what enters the race must match what is found in “Parc Ferme” so that it can be inspected by FIA.
According to the 2006 FIA Sporting Regulations:

"Each car will be deemed to be in parc fermé from the time at which it leaves the pit lane for the first time during qualifying practice until the green lights are illuminated at the start of the formation lap which immediately precedes the start of the race."

So after the race starts, the cars are not in parc ferme conditions.

Oh, and furthermore:

"If the FIA technical delegate is satisfied that changes in climatic conditions necessitate alterations to the specification of a car changes may be made to the brake cooling and radiator ducts. These changes may be made at any time after the message “CHANGE IN CLIMATIC CONDITIONS” is shown on the timing monitors, from this point the choice of brake cooling and radiator ducts is free."
So, Charlie Whiting was "satisfied that changes in climatic conditions necessitate alterations to the specification of a car blah, blah, blah" but was there "CHANGE IN CLIMATIC CONDITIONS” shown on the timing monitors :?:

Can anyone check this?
Last edited by manchild on Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

zac510
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temperature up and down, barometric pressure up and down, wind directions are not changes of climate?

manchild
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zac510 wrote:temperature up and down, barometric pressure up and down, wind directions are not changes of climate?
Temepreature and pressure go up and always and since it is so than changes on braking system wouldn't be defined as illegal apart from situations with huge changes in weather conditions.

Temperature and pressure were going up and down in Canada when Williams was disqualified because their ducts were too big.

I don't undersand how can the weather be considered as changed when no team has switched from grooved tyres to intermediate or rain tyres.

RH1300S
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It seems quite clear - the car is no longer under Parc Ferme conditions during a race. That, I presume, leaves all teams free to make adjustments to the car - nothing to stop anyone else changing their brake ducts or supension/wings whatever.

Given that the wheel covers are deemed legal (which is a whole different discussion) - surely Ferrari have done nothing illegal.

Good spot though Carbon :wink:

zac510
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Rain comes and goes too manchild!

Reca
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pRo wrote: Do the cars get inspected between quali and race? Or the parts, including tyres and whatever are on them, taken off during race?
Answer is yes to both questions.
You can download on FIA website after each race the detailed scrutineering reports with all the checks done on the cars during the weekend since Thursday till after the race. (http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_In ... japan.html use the links on the right for other races)
Anyway in term of parts replaced during the race the only requirement is :
4.3 Adding during the race :
With the exception of fuel and compressed gases, no substance may be added to the car during the race.
If it becomes necessary to replace any part of the car during the race, the new part must not weigh any more than the original part.
So as long as the rim with the partial fairing weighs the same or less than the rim with the “complete” fairing, then there’s no problem.
In qualifying situation is different, because the car is in parc fermè (it goes from start of qualifying till start of race). While in parc fermè you can substitute parts of car only as long as the new one is identical to the original one and only asking for FIA approval; in the scrutineering reports you’ll see that lot more parts than one would think of are usually changed in parc fermé.

So, to summarize, in qualifying Ferrari has to always substitute the brake duct with another one identical at each tyres change, during the race they can use different ones.
DaveKillens wrote: The facts don't lie, that device sure helped in top end speed, but didn't help in rear brake cooling.......... make your own conclusions.
Piola mentioned during the coverage already in China and again in Japan that probably they preferred to fit the “open” version at the pitstop because it reduces the risk of mistakes; in fact ever since the introduction of the fairings in Turkey Piola insisted a lot on the particular attention required at the pitstop and on the time spent by Ferrari guys on practicing the operation, even more than usual (that is already a lot).
If that’s really the case the only conclusion we can make from the non-lying facts is that during a race the seconds potentially lost with a problem at the pitstop have bigger impact than the little increment of performance or cooling efficiency from the fairings would have.

Anyway, just to point it out another time, contrarily to constant assumptions made here, the fairing isn’t legal because Ferrari somehow was hiding its real function with an idiotic excuse that FIA accepted only because they are in love with the team.
The fairing on the wheel is legal solely because of its position inside the area regulated by the article 11.4, and consequently it’s explicitly exempted from article 3.15 banning moving parts with aero influence. Movable bodywork in that area is legal no matter what its function is, hence the fairing would be legal even if its effect was exclusively to reduce aerodynamic drag (and IMHO, if I understand correctly how Ferrari rear brake ducts work, it’s not), no need to convince FIA that it has no aero influence, it obviously has, but it’s allowed to.
manchild wrote: Temperature and pressure were going up and down in Canada when Williams was disqualified because their ducts were too big.
So ? Too big is too big, period. All the versions of brake ducts used by Ferrari are inside the dimensions mandated by rules. I really don’t see the relevance of the example.

bhall
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I've looked and looked at photos from the race and can't see anything different about Ferrari's rear wheels between qualifying, the start of the race and the end of it. Does anyone have any photos?