Effect of Geoff Willis' firing on Honda

[Becker4]

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 10,00.html

Interesting article about the effect the loss of Geoff Willis might be having on Honda. I think this is something a lot of us predicted after his demotion and subsequent leaving of the team. It was obvious that the team bosses needed to show some changes to their corporate masters after honda's poor preformance over the last few years, however, i think that Geoff was the only reason they preformed as well as they did. I think Hondas structure limited the success that one of the better designers in F1 was able to bring to that team, and that same structure ultimately resulted in his sacking - in effect punishing him for its own shortcomings.

[ginsu]

Yes, I agree, and we are seeing similar philosophies at Toyota. It is something with the way these Japanese companies run their business. I think the only way Honda or Toyota could succeed is if they were like Enzo Ferrari and poured their heart and soul into building and winning with their car. Instead, they are too focused on the technological developments and don't build a good team structure that will help them on race days. I really think it's their approach to the business of racing that is hindering them. They have the money and they have the know-how, but they simply don't have the passion. I think somebody like David Richards really knew how to manage the team and bring people together. These days there's really nobody at Honda to rally around. I don't think Gil de Ferran is doing much and I'm not sure why they hired him at all.

[Ciwai]

I think they did a good thing. Willis while competent was just filling the grid with another "me too" design. Thats the last thing passionate followers of F1 want to see.

[DaveKillens]

It would be disrectful to say the Japanese lack passion, they just do things differently as we in the west are accustomed to. I do wonder about the Japanese corporate mentality though. It may work on constructing wonderful engineering projects, but maybe in the fast-paced world of F1, there may be problems. Here we have two Japanese powerhouse auto manufacturers, each desperate and passionate about achieving success in F1, pouring vast amounts of money into projects that so far have yielded just one win.
Maybe it's senior management, maybe it's the corporate approach of methodical development without willing to take great leaps of faith and risk. I don't know, just speculation. But they sure aren't like Renault, who are more organized where it counts. Just look at the development of their new project, to resolve the major issues with Bridgestone by moving wheelbase and center of masses. They have a problem, they aren't afraid to say it up and down the chain of command, and they will soon have (maybe) a solution. Bang bang bang, we have a problem, fix it, done..

[joseff]

Geoff Willis was a David Richards acquisition wasn't he? Maybe he'd find his way to Prodrive.

[RH1300S]

There seems to be a swell of opinion that the Japanese way is not a good way for F1. On the evidence, it's hard to argue that point - but there could well be other factors causing the problem in both teams (although the problems seem to be of a different nature).

I question whether the Japanese approach does not work - Honda & Toyota have produced successful engines in many areas of motorsport. Surely engine development does not allow them the luxury of development by slow process? Surely they must have been developing the engines at a frantic pace?

Perhaps people should be looking at what else may be wrong with teams beyond a Japanese cultural thing.

But - back to the original premise. I was surprised when Willis got the chop - not only were his cars looking pretty good, but remember where Williams were when he was last there (and look at where they are now) - feel that he is underrated.

[Carlos]

I think Japan is gaining momentum, after a recession that has lasted 15 years -as evidence of new energy their investment in R&D is 2.32% of GDP invested - contrast to the US 1.87% - both are leaders filing new patents - the Japanese economy has a new sense of confidence and is expected to propel product developemnt and new prosperity - perhaps this new optomism will reinvigorate the Honda and Toyota F1 projects in the next few seasons. On a more sommber note - The Japanese have always developed good engines - but historically - not chassis - not an integrated package. I remember this problem in motorcycle GP years ago - eventually they overcame the problem.

[joseff]

But - back to the original premise. I was surprised when Willis got the chop - not only were his cars looking pretty good, but remember where Williams were when he was last there (and look at where they are now) - feel that he is underrated.

He joined BAR in 2001. Williams had their best season in 2003, with Antonia Terzi and Gavin Fisher. In fact, Fisher and Willis' first car (post Newey) was the 1998 Mechachrome disaster.

[ginsu]

Honestly, I'm not sure what it is at Toyota and Honda that are causing so many issues. But remember, when Honda dominated in the 80's they were only an engine supplier, so everything is still very new for Honda and Toyota. Neither of them have truly proven themselves in F1.

I think the difficulties in building a chassis are immense. It requires constant but positive improvement. The fact that the RA106 is out qualifying the RA107 is utterly wrong. They shouldn't have made the changes they did unless they knew they were going to be better. The way they're running now, with as many aero bits stripped off is a serious sign of trouble. Somehow, they have lost touch with their car, and I think it's because they fired Geoff Willis.

These teams that run like a corporation are probably never going to be successful. I've worked for a few corporations and while I loved the people I worked with I almost always disliked management. And that's exactly what's wrong with corporate mentality (at least in America), is that the manager is often out of touch with his workforce, and have no passion for what they're doing. Anybody who is passionate about what they are working on aren't going to fire people left and right, he's going to motivate those people. If somebody is doing a bad job it's usually fixable...I wouldn't just go and fire the guy.

If we look at people like Frank Williams, Enzo Ferrari, Ron Dennis, etc they are mad about the sport. I don't think they would know what to do with their lives if they weren't in F1. Maybe the problem is here, maybe Toyota and Honda need to have someone seriously passionate about their job running the team. After all, it looks like Aguri Suzuki is doing a pretty good job with his team!

[segedunum]

Interesting article about the effect the loss of Geoff Willis might be having on Honda.

Disastrous. Almost as disastrous as Toyota firing Gascoyne.

[Becker4]

Disastrous. Almost as disastrous as Toyota firing Gascoyne.

Right. However, what makes the honda situation a bit more interesting for me is that Geoff's situation smacks more of his superiors needing a scapegoat, and him being the fall man, than in Gascoyne's case. For sure, in either situation if a winning car had been produced, this wouldn't have happened and we can never know how these two designers preformances, or lack-thereof, contributed to this (in comparison to poor corporate structure, lack of talent under them, overly bureaucratic organization over them, etc). But Gascoyne has had sort of a history of this, do well at a team for two years, and then they have a falling out and he leaves. This leads me to believe two things - one, that he really is a difficult person to have in a team, where I have heard less evidence of this in the case of Geoff willis, and maybe Toyota's reasons for letting him go had more to do with that. Two, when comparing Toyota to Renault in terms of post-Gascoyne success, Renault was able to absorb his departure and not miss a step, increasing in competitiveness and eventually winning 2 championships - needless to say, Toyota went the opposite way. This leads me to beleive that while important, especially in building a team, a headline designer will not make or break a team unless the team does not have the rest of the requisite ingredients for success. So, a Mike or Geoff can perhaps prop a bad team up or make them look better than they really are, and still not win, but a good team, with the help of a name brand designer, can become very very successful, a la Rory Byrne and Newey. Basically my contention is that Geoff willis was a vital part of honda's team and the success that they had enjoyed up to that point, including their 2004 season, he was made a scapegoat for a poor organization, and now Honda are paying for it.[/b]

[ginsu]

What bugs me about Toyota firing Gascoyne is that they did it just when they were starting to see good results. I think Ralf had a podium last year, and then they fired Gascoyne like the same week. We will never know if Toyota were coming up the ranks, and then Gascoyne leaves and they lose all their momentum.

I just think it's stupid to fire these people in the middle of a season, at least, let them finish.

[Scuderia_Russ]

One man doesn't make a team, I don't care what anyone says!

[modbaraban]

One man doesn't make a team, I don't care what anyone says!

Okay... but there was a man... you know him. Ferrari was struggling before he came and then BANG!!! lots of Champ. Titles in a row

Toyota's motto is that kAIZEN or whatever they call it... the idea is to introduce mass production methods into F1. And that's their biggest problem. Their only old-school or 'individual approach' department is the one of Luca Marmorini. And that's their strongest point IMHO.

I'm afraid by firing Richards and then Willis Honda has taken Toyota's path which is proved to be wrong... every year I hear something like "Now! The time has come for our 1st victory..." from one their bosses. It's not even funny being repeated so many times.

F1 is the sport where individuals formed into a good team can beat a comany with loads of money. Look at Renault F1. They have by far the best points/$ coefficient.

[Tom]

To be fair it wasn't just one man that turned Ferrari round, it was Bryn, Brawn and German *ahem* efficiency.