Honda admits to wind tunnel issue

[ben_watkins]

Honda doesn't work because their wind tunnels were never calibrated correctly, as many people have already thought..

Rubens has publicly confirmed this

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx ... 6&PO=40346

<-- current Honda aero team

[PNSD]

If this is found to be the problem, then it is experience which could be found at fault...



Geoff Willis would have discovered a problem ages ago, Nakajima no.

[manchild]

Picture below shows Honda's calibration equipment at 0°



<-- current Honda aero team

[kilcoo316]

I was under the impression they had admitted problems between tunnel/track correlation ages ago - as in - pre season ages ago.

EDIT:

After looking around a bit I found alot of stuff like this:
http://www.racecar.com/story.asp?NewsID=15962

The aero data collected from the RA107 this week shows a very good correlation with the model data from the wind tunnel so we are pleased with that.

So I was totally wrong with my earlier comment!

Anyway, the January press release would suggest the tunnel wasn't off. Are Honda just making excuses or is there a problem?

[Steven]

I wonder why it is that wind tunnels keep going out of calibration.

In fact it is the same tunnel that was used for their race winning 2006 car, and still in January they were happy with the settings.

Why is the wind tunnel suddenly not working anymore then? Have they changed some internal parts?

[ben_watkins]

Why is the wind tunnel suddenly not working anymore then? Have they changed some internal parts?

When I went to the factory they were very happy to say that had 2 wind tunnels, their existing 50% scale tunnel and a new 100% tunnel with a rolling steel belt road in it [like Ferrari].

I think that perhaps the new 100% tunnel was being used with incorrect calibration? Who knows..

Peter Windsor was sceptical in his article for ITV-F1 here http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type ... O_ID=39890 [see the last section of the article on Honda] where he points to the problems Honda had with the smaller scale wind tunnel and making a new one just makes the problems bigger. Also just getting new "big names" in doesn't always solve things..

Perhaps this time they needed a "big name" to come along with a fresh pair of eyes and tell them the hard truth!? Seems strange that the people who delivered their new tunnel didn't calibrate it for them?

[modbaraban]

If this is found to be the problem, then it is experience which could be found at fault...



Geoff Willis would have discovered a problem ages ago, Nakajima no.

I think I heard of the problem about 2 years ago

<-- current Honda aero team

<-- current Honda management

<-- current Honda drivers

[Timstr]

Honda's new tunnel is the same as that from Williams. Not sure about BMW-Sauber's though.
In that respect it made sense for them to hire Bigois as it seems Williams has overcome the woes they had when commissioning their tunnel.
It seems that now Bigois is there, he is seeing things that are wrong.
While initially they thought the problems were solved.

[kilcoo316]

Peter Windsor was sceptical in his article for ITV-F1 here http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type ... O_ID=39890 [see the last section of the article on Honda] where he points to the problems Honda had with the smaller scale wind tunnel and making a new one just makes the problems bigger. Also just getting new "big names" in doesn't always solve things..

About all Peter Windsor's articles are fit for is bog roll.


He doesn't have a clue what he is talking about, yet often presents it as factual.


He declared the 2004 Williams the runaway WDC and WCC winner in Feburary based soley on it having the tusked nose cone.

[ss_collins]

Imagine if there was a more reliable, more efficient, cheaper and more realistic alternative to a wind tunnel that can produce results almost as fast. Well there is and its revealed in RCE's October issue (out September).

Suffice to say its the ultimate companion to CFD and may eventually consign wind tunnels to the history books.

Off topic but a few weeks ago I got organise a wind tunnel programme and even design some parts, we spent half a day doing run after run - fascinating and great fun - thing is I need another day to improve my designs!

[kilcoo316]

Imagine if there was a more reliable, more efficient, cheaper and more realistic alternative to a wind tunnel that can produce results almost as fast. Well there is and its revealed in RCE's October issue (out September).

Enlighten me please

[Tom]

Ah, me thinks ss-collins is using his entrapenurial skills here, perhaps he's not going to tell us at all and we'll all have to subscribe to Racecar Engineering to know

I'd love to, I really would, but unfortunetly I'm going to be a student soon so unless there's a special offer for them too then I'll have to remain in the dark a bit longer.

[ginsu]

OT, but I've been having a lot of fun this summer driving through the farmlands because there are all these dandelions floating in the air and when my car approaches them I can see them flow up and over the back of my car staying completely attached and just nicking the rear end of my bootlid.

Maybe honda should go back to basics and get some wool tufts!

[kilcoo316]

Maybe honda should go back to basics and get some wool tufts!

If I recall correctly... they did!


They stuck tufts on the rear wing at a test in Barcelona (again.. IIRC)

[deluge]

Wind tunnel calibrations are complex and are not transferable from scale to scale. The rolling tunnel cannot bear the weight of the car on the belt, so support struts must be used. Thes struts must be "zeroed" out of any calculations. Also, the spinning wheels and tires do not behave "unloaded" as they do "loaded". This must also be "zeroed" out.

The wheels and tires are unloaded because both the dead load and aero load of the car are supported by the strut.

Other issues include fan produced turbulence, surface skin viscosity, and tunnel exit backpressure. All of these things must be considered before any real results can be calculated.

A car of known characteristics obtained from both tunnel data and observed on track data are necessary to "set-up" the new tunnel. i.e. a baseline of the same scale as the new tunnel.

Somehow, Honda got all of this wrong.