Did Hamilton cause the Webber - Vettel crash?

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Fan Solo
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Did Hamilton cause the Webber - Vettel crash?

Post by Fan Solo » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:27 pm

This is gonna open up such a huuuuuge can of worms but hey whats another scandal in the crazy season that is 2007?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWIfBkVQUk

Seems YT comes up trumps with footage & I am honestly not sure what to think.

I know LH was concerned that MW was too close & that he was aware he had to keep the 5 car lengths between him & the saftey car.

It looks to me that the SC slows unexpectedly hence LH going to the right to avoid hitting it. SC then foots it - LH leaves time (maybe a bit too much time) to make the 5 length gap & well it all gets messy from there.

I really dont know whats gonna happen - still if he does get a 10 place penalty like Vettel - were in for some overtaking @ the weekend :)
MMIAFN

Rob W
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Post by Rob W » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:35 pm

Holy crap, I think you could be right. I hadn't seen that view/segment before... he was just trying to avoid overtaking Hamilton - as he is entitled/required...

Interesting call there

Rob W

furnik28
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Post by furnik28 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:47 pm

the rule book stipulating that "NO DRIVER IS NOT ALLOWED TO PASS ON WHEN YELLOW CAUTION SAFTY CAR IS OUT" so when you look at it Hamilton was slowing and Webber see's LH slowing and webber puts the anchors on to keep away from geting a pennalty and hey presto two cars calide so dont jump the gun to early boy's.
rok

naknak_56
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Post by naknak_56 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:10 pm

But there can be no doubt that Hamilton was driving incredibly erratically whilst under the safety car. His 1st start was appalling as he drove away from the pack to the apex of the final corner then broke heavily and im surprised that alone didn't cause an accident. Over all i wasn't impressed by the way he drove during those periods and im not surprised Webber has pointed the finger at him.
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Spencifer_Murphy
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Post by Spencifer_Murphy » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:11 pm

ITV-F1 website has a story on it here:
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40921

To be perfectly honest I see nothing wrong with Lewis' driving there, and frankly I thought his driving behind the safety car at the start of the race was much more warrenting of some sort of penalty.

At the end of the day Lewis is behind the safety car, and (from the angle in that YT clip) it looks like Lewis slows behind the SC (which looks like it too slows down), webber then slows, as does vettel but not by enough.

Quoting from the ITV story:
Vettel said at the time that he had hit Webber while distracted by Hamilton slowing unexpectedly.

“I was exiting turn 13 and looking at Lewis, because all of a sudden he seemed to slow down really much and I thought he had a problem at that stage," Vettel told ITV Sport's Louise Goodman in Japan.

“And by the time I was looking back to the front I was already crashing into Mark’s rear end.”
Well frankly that's passing the buck a bit, If Lewis slows down then surely the cars behind should slow down (like Webber did) why did Vettel just start rubber necking like people passing a motorway collision?
"It definitely contributed to Sebastian hitting me up the back that we were confused at what the other car was doing because he wasn’t doing what you are supposed to do," Webber said.


"I think he did a s*** job behind the safety car.
So what then is Lewis supposed to do? Pass the safety car cause it slowed down? At the end of the day if Mark Webber was unsure as to lewis' driving due to supposed erratic braking behaviour then you should act as you would on the road - slow down and increase the gap between yourself and the berk infront. The fact that Mark didn't do this, while under the safety car shows that he, at the time saw nothing wrong with Lewis driving (otherwise you'd back off to protect your only chance this season of a podium!) and these comments from MW & SV can surely only be a PR thing to divert attention from the fact that SV cocked up.

I'm not blaming anybody here...just saying that I see (from tht clip) nothing wrong with LH's driving (Montoya @ Monaco when Schumi hit him in the tunnel was much worse for a start), I see that Mark did the correct thing in slowing down, and that Vettel made a mistake - big deal we all make mistakes.

What I dont like is Mark's "He did a --- job" - well if you are worried about the driver's dri9ving, back off and wait till your racing competatively before going so close again, what benifit was there for mark to be so close to LH if he REALLY did think Hamilton was driving erratically. And as far as Vettel's concerned, when you learn to drive you also learn to read the road both in the long distance and short distance, what on earth was he staring only at lewis car for?
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naknak_56
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Post by naknak_56 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:23 pm

I didn't realize the stewards were looking into it.... Cool gap down to championship leader or 10 position drop for next race anyone????
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axle
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Post by axle » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:28 pm

I think Lewis, at that moment wasn't *too* naughty...BUT I don't think he was doing the best of jobs at all.

I think the fair thing to do though is to remove Vettel's penalty and slap Lewis's wrists, reminding him of the rules etc.
- Axle

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Post by Spencifer_Murphy » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:43 pm

100% agree with axle. If they feel the need hand lewis a fine, and absolve Vettel of punishment. But dont fiddle with the championship anymore than it's already been done. Otherwise we really do risk turning the title into a complete farce. The title should be won on track, not in the sewards office or the WMSC courts!
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Sawtooth-spike
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Post by Sawtooth-spike » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:45 pm

If anything it will be a 10 place penalty, Hamiliton only needs 4 points to take Kimi out of the question. As for Alonso, he has to win, to to keep it alive.

Mark Webber is good a blaming everybody for everything bad that happens around him. Maybe he should look at the reasons why he has Achived so little.

Lewis was driving like a bit of a Nob, i must admit, but i have seen Alonso and Schumi doing the same things in the past few years.
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Ciro Pabón
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Post by Ciro Pabón » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:48 pm

Well, Vettel put a foot in his mouth and he got a 10 place penalty. Hamilton did the same. You do the math.

Sorry for posting this article complete, I shouldn't but I think it's relevant (Mr. Noble is good at resuming anything).

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62978
"Stewards investigating Hamilton's driving

By Jonathan Noble, Thursday, October 4th 2007, 09:42 GMT

World championship leader Lewis Hamilton is currently under investigation by the race stewards at the Chinese Grand Prix over his behaviour behind the safety car in Fuji last weekend, autosport.com can reveal.

It is understood that the FIA has been supplied with new information about Hamilton's driving behind the second safety car phase - where it is suggested that he contributed to the collision between Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel.

It is not clear what this new evidence may be, but it could relate to video footage suggesting that Hamilton was braking and accelerating excessively.

An FIA spokesman confirmed that the stewards were looking into the matter.

"New evidence has been brought to the stewards attention and they are currently investigating the matter," he said.

It is understood Hamilton has been asked to meet with the stewards tomorrow.

The Webber/Vettel accident was not caught on camera by Formula One's official coverage, but a Youtube video of the accident filmed from the grandstands has highlighted how Hamilton slowed down dramatically on the right of the track, forcing Webber to slow down and catch Vettel unaware.

Formula One's regulations dictate that the race leader must keep a standard distance behind the safety car until the lap before it is due to come into the pits.

Article 40.10 of the F1 Sporting Regulations states: "The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind him. Once behind the safety car, the race leader must keep within 5 car lengths of it."

With Vettel having already been handed a 10-place grid penalty in China for his part in the accident, it is thought that if the stewards believe Hamilton has done wrong then he could be punished in a similar fashion.

Red Bull Racing's Mark Webber said on Thursday that he believed Hamilton's behaviour had contributed to the accident.

"It definitely contributed to Sebastian hitting me up the back because he (Hamilton) wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing, clearly," Webber told a news conference.

"He spoke in the drivers' meeting about how good a job he was going to do and he did the opposite. Still, we know for next time."
Ciro

BreezyRacer
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Post by BreezyRacer » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:54 pm

It's interesting that this very topic was addressed during the driver's meeting and according to the video, Hamilton did end up stacking up the field thru this stupid manuever.

Why weave right on a left hand turn and slow at the same time, if not to stack the field? None of this is innocent and I have to say that the best know how to manipulate thiese circumstances to thier advantage. I would say this was quite intentional on Hamilton's part. He's a wiley little upstart, playing that rookie thing to the hilt, and quite effectively. It's reminiscent of him not following team orders, etc.

naknak_56
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Post by naknak_56 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:55 pm

They want to close the championship up to take it to the final round and Lewis ( and YouTube ) have given them the ammunition they need.
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Spencifer_Murphy
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Post by Spencifer_Murphy » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:59 pm

I'd be shocked if Lewis got a penalty because like sawtooth said, I've seen plenty of drivers doing the same if not worse, and then being let off scott-free.

If Lewis gets a penalty for this it just furthers my own opinion that the powers that be want to do all they can into manipulating the title race in some fashion so as to make it all down to the last race.
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Militia Est Vita
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Post by Militia Est Vita » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:04 pm

I love YouTube :D

axle
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Post by axle » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:10 pm

Bernie did say the other day that he'd love a Prost/Senna crash in the last race to decide the title as scandal etc will make F1 headline news again...and therefore make money.

I believe fines have been handed out in similar situations and this would be the most I would expect IF the stewards are not coerced(sp?) by Bernie and Max into "spicing" things up :rolleyes:
- Axle