Brakes

zenvision · Post 15 Oct 2007, 21:47

Do someone knows how many companies there are providing brakes, and how are they spread out, or are they exclusive?

Why do some drivers prefer one company not the other, how do they vary? Does that mean that there are no perfect brakes to suit all?

mx_tifoso · Post 16 Oct 2007, 18:32

AFAIK:

Akebono
Alcon
AP
Brembo

I believe each team decides on its brake system supplier, not the individual driver. And no, I would assume that there is no "perfect brake system". That would be because each chassis is designed and engineered seperately than its competitors, therefore each chassis has different demands, a few of them being weight distribution and caliper placement. Although I would imagine that there is not much difference between the entire feilds brake systems.

Hope that answers all, or most of your questions.

Brake Disc(Caliper) Placement

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pnagy · Post 16 Oct 2007, 19:09

I think that a couple years ago Ferrari switched manufactures for Canada because of the heavy braking requirements and the drivers had issues adapting to the different feeling while braking.[/quote]

mx_tifoso · Post 16 Oct 2007, 19:55

pnagy wrote:I think that a couple years ago Ferrari switched manufactures for Canada because of the heavy braking requirements and the drivers had issues adapting to the different feeling while braking.

Maybe different brake specifications, as they have been with Brembo for many many years now. Possibly a different disc supplier, because Brembo definately supplies their calipers.

Does anyone else recall hearing about that

modbaraban · Post 16 Oct 2007, 20:12

mx_tifosi wrote:Does anyone else recall hearing about that

Same here. I heard just recently that Ferrari got a habbit of choosing AP over Brembo for Canadian GP. At least some parts.

zenvision · Post 16 Oct 2007, 23:38

Thanks for the replies, did some research and this is what I found out from wiki:

There are currently three companies who manufacture brakes for Formula One. They are Hitco, (based in the US, part of the SGL Carbon Group), Brembo in Italy and Carbone Industie of France. Whilst Hitco manufacture their own carbon/carbon, Brembo sources theirs from Honeywell, and Carbone Industrie purchases their carbon from Messier Bugatti.

Carbon/Carbon is a short name for carbon fibre reinforced carbon. This means carbon fibres strengthening a matrix of carbon, which is added to the fibres by way of matrix deposition (CVI or CVD) or by pyrolosis of a resin binder.

F1 brakes are currently 278 mm (10.9 in) in diameter and a maximum of 28 mm (1.1 in) thick. The carbon/carbon brake pads are actuated by 6-piston opposed calipers provided by AP Racing or Brembo. The calipers are aluminium alloy bodied with titanium pistons. The regulation limits the modulus of the caliper material to prevent teams using exotic, high specific stiffness materials. Titanium pistons save weight, but also have a low thermal conductivity, reducing the heat flow into the brake fluid.

Isn't there any exclusive brake companies for teams? Thought that Ferrari especially would get at least some preference.

Its true that Ferrari changed brakes for Canada as I watch gps on RAI (italian channel, have itv bias) and they have an insider in Ferrari telling them some perks. Also, I am sure that some drivers prefer one braking system to another, in fact I've read in F1 Racing that Alonso is back on his Hicto, so I think that yes drivers can have different brakes.

m3_lover · Post 17 Oct 2007, 00:38

I do believe Alonso has his own brake's Hitco compared to Hamilton...it was on the Itv-f1 website under peter windsor's wisdom for the brazilian gp

kimi · Post 17 Oct 2007, 09:13

I have heard many times commentators saying that drivers are given the freedom to choose their own brakes as per their driving style.so i believe the selection of brakes depends on the driver as well as the car's construction(chassis n suspension may be)..

nyways during this season mclaren drivers used brakes form akebono(both disks n the callipers).does anyone know anything about it??

mahesh248 · Post 17 Oct 2007, 09:16

Not in all races did alonso use the breaks he liked , some other races like monza he was forced to use the ones which is disliked

bizadfar · Post 17 Oct 2007, 15:25

mahesh248 wrote:Not in all races did alonso use the breaks he liked , some other races like monza he was forced to use the ones which is disliked

I remember that when he tried those original package mclaren had. (carbon industrie iirc) he even said they are better than hitco. I mean to say after he was on hitco and changed back for Monza. He was surprised that the brakes felt almost better.

Many said the initial bite of hitco is very strong, and that's why he changed also renault used them.

Commentators here also speculated that alonso was looking for an advantage, but his stopped doing that (since monza) and tried to work harder on track.

Also the hitco (or whatever he was using) needed more cooling than carbon industrie.

zenvision · Post 17 Oct 2007, 22:30

do you know how they vary between them bizadfar? Does it make a difference changing only the calipers or disks, or do you have to change the complete package?

PNSD · Post 17 Oct 2007, 23:08

rubens changed his calipers last season and improved...

bizadfar · Post 18 Oct 2007, 07:28

zenvision wrote:do you know how they vary between them bizadfar? Does it make a difference changing only the calipers or disks, or do you have to change the complete package?

It's all about the feeling/taste/preference of them for each driver. How a car brakes is one of the most overlooked things in the motorsports.

I'm not certain but I'm sure you can mix and match calipers, discs. Don't see why not.
I think someone here(in this thread) said Ferrari changed to AP for Canada, but they still were using Brembo calipers. So that's a good example.

I have a question for anyone here willing to answer. I don't have much idea of the F1/open wheel braking system. Does pad knock off exist? Or do they have far more advanced prevention technology in F1?

Ciro Pabón · Post 18 Oct 2007, 17:58

I believe it's called pad knock back. Some cars use small coil springs inside the calipers to avoid excessive knock back when the suspension flexes or you have a run out of the disks.

If the disc is within specifications or the suspension is rigid enough, you don't need knock back springs. I suspect they must be used, because the lateral force is quite high.

Knock back springs

zenvision · Post 18 Oct 2007, 21:31

bizadfar wrote:
zenvision wrote:do you know how they vary between them bizadfar? Does it make a difference changing only the calipers or disks, or do you have to change the complete package?
It's all about the feeling/taste/preference of them for each driver. How a car brakes is one of the most overlooked things in the motorsports.

I'm not certain but I'm sure you can mix and match calipers, discs. Don't see why not.
I think someone here(in this thread) said Ferrari changed to AP for Canada, but they still were using Brembo calipers. So that's a good example.
?

Does that mean that only the disks vary between different companies not the calipers? I'm sorry for another question, it seems like an interrogation!