New aero rules for 2009

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kimi
kimi
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Joined: 06 Jul 2007, 19:19
Location: india

New aero rules for 2009

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The technical directors agreed to proposals which are as follows:

- Front wing width increased to 180 instead of 140 cm.

- Front wing height decreased to 7.5 instead of 15 cm.

- The middle section over a width of 40 cm has to be a standard part.

- The driver may adjust the front wing flaps from the cockpit twice a lap by an angle of a maximum 6 degrees.

- Rear wing width 75 instead of 100 cm

- Rear wing height 95 instead of 80 cm.

The diffusor then starts from the centre of the rear axle rather than from the front end of the rear wheels. It may raise to 17.5 instead of 12.5 cm. The bodywork has to be clean. That means no barge boards, no winglets, no chimneys, no flipups.

Windtunnel research has shown that with the new rules the overall downforce loss will be 50 percent compared to the 2006 aero. If you follow another car within half a car length you will only lose 25 instead of 46 percent of the downforce and the balance shift will be 1 percent to the front rather than 4 percent to the back as it is now
http://www.gp2006.com

can anybody explain how dese rules will allow more overtaking?? :D :D

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HKS
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Joined: 05 Mar 2007, 06:37

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Ya defintely , when ou are following someone on a high speed track then the following car's speed decreses this would discourage that upto a certain xtent.

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

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Where did you got this? http://www.gp2006.com isn't here anymore.

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HKS
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Joined: 05 Mar 2007, 06:37

Re: New aero rules for 2009

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kimi wrote:
The technical directors agreed to proposals which are as follows:

- Front wing width increased to 180 instead of 140 cm.

- Front wing height decreased to 7.5 instead of 15 cm.

- The middle section over a width of 40 cm has to be a standard part.

- The driver may adjust the front wing flaps from the cockpit twice a lap by an angle of a maximum 6 degrees.

- Rear wing width 75 instead of 100 cm

- Rear wing height 95 instead of 80 cm.

The diffusor then starts from the centre of the rear axle rather than from the front end of the rear wheels. It may raise to 17.5 instead of 12.5 cm. The bodywork has to be clean. That means no barge boards, no winglets, no chimneys, no flipups.

Windtunnel research has shown that with the new rules the overall downforce loss will be 50 percent compared to the 2006 aero. If you follow another car within half a car length you will only lose 25 instead of 46 percent of the downforce and the balance shift will be 1 percent to the front rather than 4 percent to the back as it is now
http://www.gp2006.com

can anybody explain how dese rules will allow more overtaking?? :D :D


the last paragraph says
Windtunnel research has shown that with the new rules the overall downforce loss will be 50 percent compared to the 2006 aero. If you follow another car within half a car length you will only lose 25 instead of 46 percent of the downforce and the balance shift will be 1 percent to the front rather than 4 percent to the back as it is now

It says it all that the downforce losses are reduced so the cars taking to overtake have a better downforce and this increases the overall speed of the car specially on high speed corners or straights increasing the chances to overtake and makinf F1 more competitive

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HKS
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Joined: 05 Mar 2007, 06:37

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Cotrrection
cars trying to * and not cars taking to :)

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

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Okay i saw it on other sites...i hinted this was following the WMSC meeting...and it will be featured in the new technical regulations.


I'm quite happy while again don't understand too much how with an increased front wing, closer to the ground, a steeper diffuser and adjustable flaps the overall downforce will be decreased.

By the way, the purpose for overtaking are quite simple: steeper diffuser=more ground effects less sensibility.

Simpler yet bigger and lower front wings: less sensibility more Wing In Ground effect

narrower rear wing: less downforce generated by her so less coupling with the diffuser so less turbulent flow.

Adjustable flaps: allowing to run the car with more agressive angles to obtain more downforce from a disturbed freestream.

Quite cool actually, you bet the loss of downforce will be backed up in no time and simpler aero with adjustable front wing will be used in straight line on some tracks to have more speed.

Excited to see what it will give for lap times!



EDIT: Ah schumi's maybe right about the last paragraph, i may have it wrong,this may be the loss of downforce reduced to 50% of the 2006 and not the downforce herself reduced by 50%. anyway what is written above is valid IMHO (about overtaking).
Last edited by Ogami musashi on 26 Oct 2007, 22:13, edited 1 time in total.

bar555
bar555
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Joined: 08 Aug 2007, 18:13
Location: Greece - Athens

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Any pictures of this new rules ?? :?:

PNSD
PNSD
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006, 18:10

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standardized frontwing ?

Horrible.

Also the flaps, if they are going make them adjustable why not make it an infinate number ?? 2 is pathetic!

The rest seems ok.

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

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Because you can't have more than 3 elements on a wing.

No the front wing is not standard it is the center of the wing that will be standard and i presume this is to prevent team to run it too low.

meves
meves
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 12:01

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All I can see is movable twice a lap being controversial, with a driver adjusting the front on the start finish straight whilst crossing the line and a team asking for which lap it was adjusted on...but it's a nice idea.

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NickT
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003, 12:47
Location: Edinburgh, UK

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IMHO anything that reduces overall down force and reduces turbulence is a good thing as it reduces cornering speeds and allows following cars to run closer to the car in frount on the exit of a bend thus giving a better opportunity to see some more overtaking. In addition to this braking distances are also increased because of the lower down force and thus available grip at the start of the braking area. Once again giving a better opportunity to see some more overtaking.

The new rules look good but I would add a standard and simplified rear diffuser and floor, optimised to reduce turbulence not down force. Keep the rest free for the teams to develop but lets increase the reliance on mechanical grip and driver ability :D
NickT

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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Ogami musashi wrote:Okay i saw it on other sites...
Where? I looked

around, and each and every post on any and all msgboards points only to "automoto365" website. They, in turn, don't reference the article to anything at all and I can't remember seeing any comparable information either on the official F1 website nor the FIA website ... the 2009 Technical Regulations seem to have been updated December 22, 2006. Some of them are in line with what has been published in "automoto365", others are not. Engine rules certainly haven't even been revised according to the 10 year complete homologation plans yet. I also remember the OWG stating that they will publish the results of their work around new year's. If you have seen any information from verifiable sources, please post links to those.

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Militia Est Vita
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Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 15:26
Location: Mexico

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No info on F1t, no Formula1.com, no FIA, no Autosport.com nor F1racing.net. Seems to me it is not very official.

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

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The original article was written on automoto365 yes.

Prior to that article i found that:

http://www.grandprixgames.org/read.php?3,742347,page=1
(sorry at this time, it doesn't work but used to). It mentionned autosport for source and was posted before.

The news were relayed by quite some people and today here:

http://www.tagheuer.com/f1/news/f1-news ... 2DF3B79B5F

Two things :

-The news has not been announced by Formula1.com or autosport but the details given coincide totaly with what the OWG was working on and had proposed far before.

-in the official press release of the FIA following the WMSC Meeting, it is mentionned that " a number of amendments to the 2008 sporting regulations and 2008 and 2009 technical regulations have been made, for full details http://www.fia.com" but still nothing...like you i check the regulations page but still are the old ones.


So all in one, i'm also surprised about the non anouncement but the two arguments above make me think that this could be totaly true.

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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Ogami musashi wrote:So all in one, i'm also surprised about the non anouncement but the two arguments above make me think that this could be totaly true.
FIA WMSC, on October 24th wrote:A number of amendments were adopted for the 2008 Sporting Regulations and the 2008 and 2009 Technical Regulations. For full details please refer to http://www.fia.com.
Perhaps they're among

the amendments, then. In that case publications like Autosport would've missed them all but completely. I'm also wondering whether the OWG has actually presented the WMSC with anything yet? They did wrap up part of their work earlier (was it wind tunnel, CFD or both, I can't remember) but whether they've managed to write their reports is another matter. On the other hand I think it's pretty clear that the WMSC went against the proposals of the manufacturers on the engine issue, so why not handle the OWG just as arbitrarily ...

Of the alledged changes, the front wing width seems well founded enough, changing the dynamics in relation to the tyres (would be interesting to whether steering angle can be incorporated in the design flow wise ...). But I'm doubtful whether the spec mid section is needed to reduce turbulence etc. The front wing traditionally has an advantageous L/D ratio as it is (if I've understood it correctly) and the flow will meet further objects thereafter anyway. And do I even need to go into why driver adjusted flaps are a terrible idea (compared to almost any other reactive/autonomous variable aero system)? I didn't think so ...

Slightly higher but narrower rear wing? The same could've been achieved by a longer chord and a lower AoA and propably would've looked nicer, too ... Which brings me to the diffuser, for which the suggestion seems to be both shorter and steeper; hardly the recipe for a uniform and predictable wake, unless I'm missing something about how this would work with the lower front wing. Seems counterintuitive for me, when the diffuser is set to be fed less air anyway, with the removal of barge boards and winglets. Drivers would propably find the rear "lively" to say the least as the flow would be more, not less prone to detach in lower speeds.

Somehow all these published suggestions seem like a guess, based on things that have been in the public domain for ages now (certainly the front wing width and banning of overlapping surfaces at least). I expect the OWG to come out with suitably flashy graphics when publishing their findings, to excite fans. I also expect them to change some of the fundamentals of the design in some way. As we've seen with the emergence of many new formulae recently, producing conceptual designs to a certain degree of accuracy isn't such a monumental task, after all. Indeed, they could've even come up with a couple of alternatives.

I hope the OWG will make their work public. I can't think what would stop them, as they will have to distribute it freely and equally to every team anyway?