Extended essay => aerodynamics and formula 1

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
Bodybagger
Bodybagger
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Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:38 pm

Extended essay => aerodynamics and formula 1

Post

hey everyone,
im currently doing the IB program, and i have to do an extended essay. I chose to do it on aerodynamics and formula 1 since that's the area im interested in.

I've been browsin around for a while on this forum, and i've been to various sites and already found lots of information, but what i really need to find is information on how downforce is calculated, the use of windtunnels, and maybe some raw data if possible.
Does anyone here know some good sites where i can find this sort of info?

Thnx!

drspeed
drspeed
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Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:28 pm
Location: Milan, Italy

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I just read your post, and it's interesting cuz i wrote my extended essay on F1 as well!!! I'm currently in the senior course of the IB.

I analysed the suspension systems on F1 cars. Well technically, it was just an investigation of suspension testing. I used my Tamiya F201 RC car to run on various suspension settings and had to utilize statistics and standard deviation to conclude which setting was the most effective. It really helps if you study both higher level Math and Physics.

A friend of mine planned to investigate aerodynamics in F1, but it involved all the trouble of building an accurate miniature of the cars because off the shelf 1:18 or 1:43 models didnt work very well. In the end, he investigated the lift force the wings of RC planes generate. He even made a small windtunnel consisting of two fans and four transparent acryl plastic sheets. Cigarettes were used to simulate the smoke they use in real windtunnels.

It's quite complicated to investigate downforce on f1 cars. In my opinion, investigating lift sheds atleast half of all the problems you'll need to solve. Unless you want to investigate the way cars generate downforce through diffusers or bargeboards, i strongly suggest you to go for lift forces.
-Challenging is more exciting than defending-

akbar21881
akbar21881
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2003 9:49 pm
Location: bristol,uk

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Hi guys..I was also IB student some years ago,99-2000 to be exact.I've never thought of doing my Extended Essay on F1.Anyway good luck to you two.May both of you obtained perfect 45 points!!!

Bodybagger
Bodybagger
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Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:38 pm

Post

thanx for the replies guys,
yeah i am doing math and physics higher, and i was also thinking about building a windtunnel, but my physics teacher advised me not to. He said it would take too much time.

drspeed, when you advise me to go for lift forces, do you mean how wings generate lift in general? because that was initially my idea, to investigate the lift forces on fighter jets, but because most of this information is classified i couldn't find any usable info. But thanks for the advise, i will look into it.

drspeed
drspeed
0
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:28 pm
Location: Milan, Italy

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Correct mate, I was talking about lift in general.

It seems like you're in your initial stages of research as my junior friends at my place are doing. The thing is, you would probably be drawn to complicated stuff at first like downforces, but as you progress in your research, you will realise that especially in the field of physics, -since there are not many people chooseing this subject for the essay- the quality of it's contents win over original topics. It is not easy to write an essay in physics, infact it could be expesive as it was in my case.

I first started off to develop an entire RC f1 model, from aero to tires, suspension, motors, even electronics. But the thing is, if you try to do all this, you'll never complete the essay at all. One reason why I had to narrow things down to suspension development, and it proved to be a right choice.

As with the amount of lift wings generate, there's no need to look further than RC wings. There are tonnes of websites looking at technical aspects of an aerofoil. If you intend to connect it to F1, it will provide some relevant knowledge. I personally dont think it's a good idea to jump right into F1. Afterall, primative F1 wings inthe 60s came from old WW2 planes hadnt they?

I'll leave you a link you could look up
http://wright.nasa.gov/airplane/incline.html
-Challenging is more exciting than defending-

Bodybagger
Bodybagger
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Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:38 pm

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hey, thanks a lot for the advise rdspeed! yeah i am in the initial stages of the extended essay, actually, today i had to "officially" decide on which subject i would do it. I think i will follow your advice, since lift forces seem less complicated than downforce. thanks for the link and the advice.

-alex-

Halo214
Halo214
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:09 pm

Re: Extended essay => aerodynamics and formula 1

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Hey guys

I am doing my ee topic too, this post is quite old but I am very intersted in Cars and also f1 and planning to do like braking or different engine properties. Do you have any recommendation?

How did you guy's ee go?

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raymondu999
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Extended essay => aerodynamics and formula 1

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Whoa. I got my diploma in May 08 and my EE was nowhere NEAR F1. Lol. Good luck :mrgreen:
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tahadar
tahadar
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Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:20 am

Re: Extended essay => aerodynamics and formula 1

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For info on windtunnel testing, look up "Low Speed Wind Tunnel Testing" by Barlow. For a general introduction into racecar aerodynamics, the first book i read was "Competition Car Aerodynamics" by McBeath. Now i'm not sure whether or not these two books are the best texts for somebody hoping to write an extended essay on F1 and aero, but they are the two books that i first read on the subject and they do a fairly good job explaining the two topics you want to cover.

Halo214
Halo214
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:09 pm

Re: Extended essay => aerodynamics and formula 1

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I dont think I would be doing aero stuff since it is too dificult but any ideas on mechanical side of cars/f1?

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Extended essay => aerodynamics and formula 1

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Oh, you cheater. You are trying to lure us into giving you advice on how to FIND a book in the Net about F1 design? Shame on you.

You also do it by resurrecting a zombie thread and rejecting tahadar advice about how to do an EE on aerodynamics, just because you want to write about the mechanical side of F1? :o Tahadar knows very well that all EE about F1 have to deal with aerodynamics... the other aspects of the car are for sissies, like those Italian guys at Brembo.

In spite of those fatal flaws, you also seem to ignore the fact that, as per the standard agreement (you know, the agreement you signed when you became member of the forum), to get amazezing links you have to give your soul to the forum. I ain't seen no soul yet. However, here you have this advance:

http://depositfiles.com/es/files/52xyjhv8l

I hereby remind you that Item 3.2.4.18.9.III of the agreement says:

"If you write any extended essay while being member of the forum, you have to publish it in its entirety in the Fanboy Ying-Yang thread, along with the standard hymn prasing Tomba that HAS to be included in the backcover of your essay".

Our lawyers will get in touch with you regarding this issue.

-----------------------
Barrister Ngomba M'Kena
Lagos, Nigeria
Ciro

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raymondu999
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Extended essay => aerodynamics and formula 1

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I thought the Tomba hymn was meant to be Appendix A :mrgreen:
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Victini
Victini
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:25 pm

Re: Extended essay => aerodynamics and formula 1

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I'm also considering doing my essay about car performance, but I was thinking along the lines of the benefits and drawback of things such as rear wings/spoilers on cars and the limit of where the spoiler starts to affect the performance of the car, whether it's due to the size or weight of the car. This is bound to change, but I need some help properly formulating my idea.

I5JOHNI5
I5JOHNI5
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:01 pm

Re: IB PHYSICS EE

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drspeed wrote:
Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:28 pm
I just read your post, and it's interesting cuz i wrote my extended essay on F1 as well!!! I'm currently in the senior course of the IB.

I analysed the suspension systems on F1 cars. Well technically, it was just an investigation of suspension testing. I used my Tamiya F201 RC car to run on various suspension settings and had to utilize statistics and standard deviation to conclude which setting was the most effective. It really helps if you study both higher level Math and Physics.

A friend of mine planned to investigate aerodynamics in F1, but it involved all the trouble of building an accurate miniature of the cars because off the shelf 1:18 or 1:43 models didnt work very well. In the end, he investigated the lift force the wings of RC planes generate. He even made a small windtunnel consisting of two fans and four transparent acryl plastic sheets. Cigarettes were used to simulate the smoke they use in real windtunnels.

It's quite complicated to investigate downforce on f1 cars. In my opinion, investigating lift sheds atleast half of all the problems you'll need to solve. Unless you want to investigate the way cars generate downforce through diffusers or bargeboards, i strongly suggest you to go for lift forces.
Hi DR Speed. I am currently on year two IB doing my physics EE about RC cars. I would really really appreciate if you can give me some tips for it as i am currently struggleing a bit on it.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: IB PHYSICS EE

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I5JOHNI5 wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:32 pm
drspeed wrote:
Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:28 pm
I just read your post, and it's interesting cuz i wrote my extended essay on F1 as well!!! I'm currently in the senior course of the IB.

I analysed the suspension systems on F1 cars. Well technically, it was just an investigation of suspension testing. I used my Tamiya F201 RC car to run on various suspension settings and had to utilize statistics and standard deviation to conclude which setting was the most effective. It really helps if you study both higher level Math and Physics.

A friend of mine planned to investigate aerodynamics in F1, but it involved all the trouble of building an accurate miniature of the cars because off the shelf 1:18 or 1:43 models didnt work very well. In the end, he investigated the lift force the wings of RC planes generate. He even made a small windtunnel consisting of two fans and four transparent acryl plastic sheets. Cigarettes were used to simulate the smoke they use in real windtunnels.

It's quite complicated to investigate downforce on f1 cars. In my opinion, investigating lift sheds atleast half of all the problems you'll need to solve. Unless you want to investigate the way cars generate downforce through diffusers or bargeboards, i strongly suggest you to go for lift forces.
Hi DR Speed. I am currently on year two IB doing my physics EE about RC cars. I would really really appreciate if you can give me some tips for it as i am currently struggleing a bit on it.
That user hasn't been on the forum for many years now, so I doubt you'll get an answer from them.
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