German GP 2008

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
Miguel
Miguel
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Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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Tomba wrote:Actually Massa was having problems with his brakes, so there wasn't really much to do for him. It obviously helped massively for Hamilton and makes it look more dominant than it actually was ;)
Thanks for the note Tomba. I didn't know it, and it certainly explains why Massa was slow and why Hamilton took him so easily.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

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axle
axle
3
Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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Heikki did the right thing - why damage the TEAM for your own pride? It's a team sport as much as it's about the individuals. Kudos to Heikki for putting the team's points haul before his own. =D>

Lewis' overtakes were the same as most of the fields thoughout the midfield squabbles? Where's the issue? It's not like he slammed anyone in a wall, or a gravel trap. I do the same in Kart races...hang 'em out to dry if you're leading as they should lift and give up ;)

McLaren's decision not to bring Lewis in was due to them expecting the SC in 3 laps faster than actually occured, 3 laps would have seen him come out between Massa and Piquet. They misjudged it, but on another day they could have been right...Glock was holding his lumber region (lowerback) once out of the car sho could have some nasty swelling and bruising around there...could make it too uncomfortable to drive the next GP.
- Axle

ben_watkins
ben_watkins
0
Joined: 21 Jun 2007, 23:49
Location: UK

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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Brilliant win for Hamilton.. Great overtaking too and some seriously fast laps. The Ferrari's looked like they were struggling too. Great news for Piquet to get a podium ahead of Alonso, but to be fair it was his aweful quali and 1 stop strategy that followed from that plus a big safety car period that got him up the sharp end. However, respect is due for a great drive from him to bring it home 2nd. Well done Piquet Jnr!

Shame on Honda being beaten by both Force India cars! Well done to Mike Gasgoyne and F1I for a great result.
BWP
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axle
axle
3
Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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ben_watkins wrote:Shame on Honda being beaten by both Force India cars! Well done to Mike Gasgoyne and F1I for a great result.
Fisi has been handed a 25sec penalty.
- Axle

ben_watkins
ben_watkins
0
Joined: 21 Jun 2007, 23:49
Location: UK

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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Awww shame.. What for?


Also what do people think happened to Glock's rear suspension to break like that? I'm wandering if it was a drive shaft failure leading to the suspension failure.. Anyone got any info on this?
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gcdugas
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006, 21:48

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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waynes wrote:Where are Toyota's F1 team based again?

Kimi is fuelled heavy, he isnt comfortable with the car on a 2 lap run but on a long stint its quicker than the McLaren

we'll see
We saw. Just another sycophant blindly denying reality.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1

Badmon
Badmon
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Joined: 16 Jul 2008, 00:07

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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Tomba wrote:
EAKMotorsports wrote:I´m mad Hamilton is so dirt driver. I hate FIA for that, I´m mad furious.
As I wrote in my GP report, I agree that he didn't drive cleanly and should we watched closely by the FIA. Pushing someone off the track to pass him is on the limit, but when you do it twice in two laps, it's not a coincidence anymore.
I thought the same thing... but after watching the replays the man held his line. It happened to be that Massa and Piquet was on the left. Mclaren made some major improvments MAJOR, you could see the car eating up the track behind Ferrari. Well deserve win for Hamilton. The Man is truly talented =D> .

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Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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Badmon wrote:The Man is truly talented =D> .
Yeah he is good. We will truly see his talent when he has a --- car. It's not hard looking good in the fastest car on track.

Tom H
Tom H
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Joined: 01 Oct 2007, 23:33

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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Great race. Really enjoyed it, safety car was needed to make it better =D>

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Vasco
0
Joined: 21 Apr 2004, 22:05
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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Ray wrote:
Badmon wrote:The Man is truly talented =D> .
Yeah he is good. We will truly see his talent when he has a --- car. It's not hard looking good in the fastest car on track.
Come on, just accept it......he is talented. He did beat eyebrow man in his first season and these last two races of his have been spectacular...

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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People are interesting, indeed.

I remember races where Michael Schumacher was clearly the beneficiary of team orders, or when he displayed a liberal interpretation of passing etiquette and people got up in arms over that, too. It's just funny how yesterday's Schumacher detractor is today's Hamilton defender.

Of course, those who saw nothing wrong with Schumacher's form should say nothing now.

Therefore, I have nothing else to say about that. :wink:

It's quite evident that McLaren now have the upper hand over Ferrari in terms of development, though I don't think we can still say by how much, as it's been several races since the outcome was decided on pace alone. Today's wildly different strategies between Hamilton and the rest of the field did nothing to clarify matters.

On another note, I think I'm officially giving up on Felipe Massa. He's a very quick driver, but he goes to pieces under pressure, be it from rain or from an oncoming driver. He may not have had "the car to fight today," as he said, but he gifted second place to Hamilton. I don't know how else to describe his inexplicable moving off of the prime defensive line coming into that hairpin.

Or maybe he just holds the door open for all the ladies. I don't know.

Congratulations to Piquet for a mistake-free (and quite lucky) race. It was nice to see, as was Raikkonen's charge into the points after the safety car period.

God, I hope Ferrari ups their pace. I don't know that I can stomach much more of the effusive praise being heaped upon Hamilton. It's getting worse, as evidently his poo has no odor at all.

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gcdugas
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006, 21:48

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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WhiteBlue wrote:BMW are still playing a very dumb game on Saturday morning. They always run low lap numbers and only on heavey fuel loads. They should routinely let Heidfeld do 10-15 additional laps on low fuel. He is usually 2 tenth slower than Kubica unless he can familiarise himself with the conditions and hone himself to the pace. with a bit of training that shouldn't be so drastic as it was today. again Nick missed out on Kubica in Q2 by two tenth and in the end that meant a difference of five places. when will they learn. or are they hell bent to get rid of Nick?

You are way off WhiteBlue. Nick did 24 laps Saturday. More than both Ferraris, both Macs, both Renaults, more than Robert. He just had a very rare crash in Q2. (How often does he even have off track excursions even on Fridays?) He would have easily made it into Q3 except for that. And Nick is only 7 points behind Robert.

If you really want to study something, study being supportive of your drivers. BMW has stuck with Nick and helped him deal with a technical issue. The tyre warming issue (which today struck Robert) is something quantifiable on the telemetry. Nick is confident that he is on top of it now and the results have shown since the disaster in France. Nick had the fastest lap today on a day when pace-setter Lewis had to push extremely hard prior to his last stop. Renault are supporting Piquet and today's drive (lucky track position) showed that he didn't crack under pressure. Mac are being supportive of Heikki. On the other hand, STR destroyed their drivers last year with no pre-season testing, a late driver announcement days before the season opener, and numerous critical public comments from Berger. Berger needs a lesson in this. Right now Bourdais is dealing with the new car but the team are silent and not supportive like BMW towards Nick. Prior to the new car, Bourdais edged out wunderkind Vettel. Toyota have been supportive of Timo as well. Brawn at Honda is supportive of his drivers knowing that they want to win but suffer with a pig car. Drivers don't need to be coddled but they must be made to feel secure. Team personnel are like this also. That is why Mateschitz vowed to fully fund STR next year even though they know he is looking for a buyer.

Nick will surely be at BMW in 2009.
They are more than happy with him. His technical contribution to the car is one reason Robert has good equipment. It is well known that Nick is perhaps the best overtaker in F1. (Ask any insider) Nick has gained more positions during the races than any other driver (quali vs. finish position). His rain driving is stellar and few can drive a heavy car like him. He rarely crashes and is easy on equipment. He knows how to finish and bring the car home. He has had two fastest laps compared to Robert's zero. Shades of Prost. His only problem is that he is almost invisible.

Nick has three non-point finishes this year to Robert's two non-point finishes. In Spain he was forced to refuel during the safety car period costing him 4th if not a podium and it cost him a 10 second penalty. At Monaco Nando crashed his car into Nick damaging its aero. France was his only finish out of the points "on merit". Of Robert's two non-point finishes, in Melbourne he was wrecked by Kaz and we remember him crashing in the wet at Silverstone, a driver error. Nick has had no driver errors so far.

FYI, for those who want to see something very interesting, for those who are slamming Heikki compared to Lewis, for those who are writing Kimi off... see this.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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bhallg2k wrote:People are interesting, indeed.

I remember races where Michael Schumacher was clearly the beneficiary of team orders, or when he displayed a liberal interpretation of passing etiquette and people got up in arms over that, too. It's just funny how yesterday's Schumacher detractor is today's Hamilton defender.

Of course, those who saw nothing wrong with Schumacher's form should say nothing now.

Therefore, I have nothing else to say about that. :wink:

It's quite evident that McLaren now have the upper hand over Ferrari in terms of development, though I don't think we can still say by how much, as it's been several races since the outcome was decided on pace alone. Today's wildly different strategies between Hamilton and the rest of the field did nothing to clarify matters.

On another note, I think I'm officially giving up on Felipe Massa. He's a very quick driver, but he goes to pieces under pressure, be it from rain or from an oncoming driver. He may not have had "the car to fight today," as he said, but he gifted second place to Hamilton. I don't know how else to describe his inexplicable moving off of the prime defensive line coming into that hairpin.

Or maybe he just holds the door open for all the ladies. I don't know.

Congratulations to Piquet for a mistake-free (and quite lucky) race. It was nice to see, as was Raikkonen's charge into the points after the safety car period.

God, I hope Ferrari ups their pace. I don't know that I can stomach much more of the effusive praise being heaped upon Hamilton. It's getting worse, as evidently his poo has no odor at all.
Guilty as charged, and now that it is a driver that I support who is benefiting then I have changed my tune. In this instance the only difference is that the McLarens have only really done it when there has been a vast difference of pace or the drivers are on different strategies. Today I think that it was pretty obvious that Hamilton would eventually find a way past Heiki, and that all he'd be doing by fighting him is harming the teams chances of challenging for even more points. Where I objected in the past to Ferraris tactics was where Schumacher was, for example, gifted wins when his teammate was leading the race and was at least there on merit. So subtly different, but I agree that I am being a tad hypocritical.

And totally agree with you that all those detractors are just making fools of themselves now. You can almost guarantee that had it been Hamiltons teammate with a suspension failure then they would all have been saying "oh my god he should have been retired just in case", and that it shows how reckless McLaren are.

I agree that it looks like Massa went to pieces when Hamilton caught him, but if he was having brake issues (and there was a lot of dust coming off the car under braking at the hairpin on the replay) then it may have been riskier to hold the inside line - for example if the brake problems caused a lack of feel and he would have been more likely to lock up by running off line. Or he could have just been a big girlie about the whole thing...

Finally about the relative paces of the drivers, I think the first stint was very telling - Hamilton was slightly lighter (about 2 laps I think) but was at least half a second faster on pretty much every lap.

Even in the second stint when Massa was believed to be slightly lighter, or at least equal, Hamilton was able to pull away when he wanted to.

So frankly I think that McLaren has taken a small step forward and is the slightly better package at this stage. But having said that I think Ferrari flattered them today as they clearly had setup problems. Notice yet again how quick Kimi was if you look at fastest race laps, but throughout most of the race he was ineffective. They really seem to struggle with setup for relatively green tracks.

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: German Grand Prix 2008

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gcdugas wrote:FYI, for those who want to see something very interesting, for those who are slamming Heikki compared to Lewis, for those who are writing Kimi off... see this.
Almost with you 100% but disagree with the fastest laps showing anything too important. Yet again today Kimi looked good if you look only at fastest laps, but in reality for the first two stints he was nowhere performance wise, and was only reasonable in the third stint. Again Kimi fastest at Silverstone, but would you really want to compare his pace to Hamiltons?

The importance is pace across the whole stint - that was what was so impressive about Hamiltons opening stint today, it was so measured yet blisteringly fast.

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gcdugas
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006, 21:48

Re: German Grand Prix

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mx_tifosi wrote:Personal opinion here, but I really hope for dry conditions throughout the entire GP weekend. Wet races might be entertaining and keep you on the edge of your seat screaming at the tv, but they're not very fulfilling nor very representative of maximum high performance, which is what Formula One is about.
Safety car notwithstanding, this was just the race you hoped for. Ferrari, Mac and BMW all got both cars into the points for the first time this year. Good chart of season at a glance here.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1