Do teams have a chance without KERS in 09?

[G-Rock]

I've been noticing that in the testing times, that TR is doing quite well without KERS.
Could the added expense and time in setting up a KERS car be a disadvantage vs a team that is concentrating all its resources on just the car?
Some KERS teams say that KERS gives a .5 sec advantage but thats only an "in team" comparison. If you compared a KERS Mclaren to a non KERS Toro Rosso; I wonder what the difference would be?
I can't wait until March to find out so please help me out!

[roost89]

I suspect that's mainly the difference in the aero and engine regulations that's giving the big difference in time. Also STR will have alot of practice at setting-up the car while the other teams will be getting used to the new cars.

[ISLAMATRON]

STR is running 2008 downforce levels with 2009 slicks... their speed is in now way indicative of reality... they are just trying to get Buemi some seat time.

[xpensive]

When 400 kJ of stored KERS energy per lap only represent some 1.7% of the total mechanical energy produced by the engine over the same lap (simplified as an average of 400 Hp in 80 sec), I don't expect it to affect the lap-times that much.

However, I believe that the FIAs general idea is to give better opportunities for overtaking, while giving the sport some much needed "green" kudos of course

[Conceptual]

When 400 kJ of stored KERS energy per lap only represent some 1.7% of the total mechanical energy produced by the engine over the same lap (simplified as an average of 400 Hp in 80 sec), I don't expect it to affect the lap-times that much.

However, I believe that the FIAs general idea is to give better opportunities for overtaking, while giving the sport some much needed "green" kudos of course

If they are allowed to charge the KERS on the recon lap, the cars without it will get SMOKED off the line, especially if all engines are tuned to 750HP... The KERS cars will launch from the line with 830HP effectively, so if the real race in F1 is into turn 1, I think that any team without KERS will be seriously disadvantaged...

[mx_tifoso]

Sam Michaels from Williams has said that aero will be the key element for the first two thirds, then weight distribution to optimize tyre performance, and then KERS.

Quote from Michaels worth mentioning:

KERS in 2009 could be worth between 2/10ths and 3/10ths of a second per lap. However, once aero performance converges, KERS could start to become a greater performance differentiator and if the regulations give more scope to the technology, it could be worth anything up to a second a lap and it will be needed to win Grands Prix"

[WhiteBlue]

I think that a decent KERS with excellent reliability will be needed to take the title this year.

[Conceptual]

Well, according to Flavio's Q&A on Formula1.com, if BMW would have just shut the hell up, and dropped their KERS hardon, the teams could have saved hundreds of millions of dollars in development this year.

And I am beginning to feel that anything that is able to become standardized needs to be completely removed instead. No front wings, no KERS, no transmissions...

Who's board signature has that saying about a designers job not being done by adding the last finishing touches, but removing the last possible parts? One quote that has kind of shifted my perspective on things...

[donskar]

Do teams have a chance without KERS in 09?

One might as well ask, "do teams have a chance WITH KERS in '09?"

KERS could be one of the most significant tech changes in many years. Maybe as big as the introduction of the "semi-automatic" transmission on the Barnard Ferraris of the early '90s.

Anyone remember the early days of that tech breakthrough? The emphasis was on "break."

I have to wonder just how reliable KERs will be this year. If it is not ready at all for the beginning of the season, how long will it take to be at the level of relaibility demanded in F1?

[Bob Brown]

Well, according to Flavio's Q&A on Formula1.com, if BMW would have just shut the hell up, and dropped their KERS hardon, the teams could have saved hundreds of millions of dollars in development this year.

And I am beginning to feel that anything that is able to become standardized needs to be completely removed instead. No front wings, no KERS, no transmissions...

Who's board signature has that saying about a designers job not being done by adding the last finishing touches, but removing the last possible parts? One quote that has kind of shifted my perspective on things...

I find it even funnier that after all of BMW's hard on for KERS, they are now contemplating to not run it in the first (few?) races. Should've just waited another year. Flavor Flav was right !

[Agerasia]

Also of cousre you have less ballast to move around when running KERS. It's probable that a car with it will be slightly slower over the lap than one without it up until the point it's used.

[Ian P.]

Who's board signature has that saying about a designers job not being done by adding the last finishing touches, but removing the last possible parts? One quote that has kind of shifted my perspective on things...

A buddy of mine had a tour of the Lotus Works back in 78. While the plant manager that talked to him was not The C. Chapman, obviously the philosophy carried over.
When asked about employment opportunities he replied....

"To make one bolt perform a single function is the job of a technician.
A person who can make one bolt perform two functions is an Engineer."
"The person who can get the bolt to do three things.....he can work for me."

I just can't see KERs being that much of a factor in starts unless it is tied into some form of traction control. After all, the major issue off the start is traction. The biggest influence there is weight distribution.
Is it March yet.....???

[ISLAMATRON]

Do teams have a chance without KERS in 09?

One might as well ask, "do teams have a chance WITH KERS in '09?"

KERS could be one of the most significant tech changes in many years. Maybe as big as the introduction of the "semi-automatic" transmission on the Barnard Ferraris of the early '90s.

Anyone remember the early days of that tech breakthrough? The emphasis was on "break."

I have to wonder just how reliable KERs will be this year. If it is not ready at all for the beginning of the season, how long will it take to be at the level of relaibility demanded in F1?

KERS is not an integral system in that it does not need to be fully operational in order for the car to run. If you bump start your car you can still drive the car even though your starter is busted, same with your battery or your stereo. KERS is regulated to be used for only about 6 seconds a lap... the rest of the time the car must still run and the KERS is dead weight collecting electric charge. If you are expecting explosions from the battery pack or something like that dont hold your breath.

[NDR008]

Hmmm, I think it is too hard to speculate, since KERS is really quite open in how and of what it is made.
An electric motor type KERS would be extremely useful in acceleration due to the amazing torque at 0rpm electric motors give. However my biggest counter efficiency in terms of KERS is, if it adds too much weight, you are burning the fuel and loosing lap time to carry it. So who has it, will possibly be slightly slower before using the charged energy. It is going to be awkward.

Quite possibly, KERS will be useful at some tracks more then others. I doubt to see it on tracks with very long flat out bends and straights.

[xpensive]

If Flavio, Luca and Sam Michael and are correct, that some teams are investing 50 MUSD in KERS to gain two or three tenths per lap, I think the money could be wiser spent by the teams without an open checkbook.